Speidel Braumeister (brewmaster)

[becks41]

Hey Obliviousbrew, thanks for the tips. I haven't been stirring as it seems like a bit of a pain, but I suppose if it helps increase my efficiency I could do it. I agree that my mash schedule was too long, I was just testing out the system to see if i could squeeze any more sugar from the grain and the answer seemed to be no. I suppose I could try to fit another .5 kg in the short malt pipe, it just seemed so full with the 6kg, but I'll remember that. Let me know how your brew goes tomorrow, I'll be curious to know if you can up your OG at all, 1.072 is a really good limit.

Cheers!

 

[dinnerstick]

obliviousbrew you say you cram the malt pipe full, i recently posted that i had trouble recently with an over ambitious grist bill and although circulation was evident the top of the malt tube wasn't getting up to temp, which resulted in a wort that was more fermentable than it should have been, in addition to lower efficiency than expected (the beer is still good but should have been better). i did not stir at any point since i saw liquid flow. so i'm wondering if you have checked the temp at the top of the malt tube before or after stirring when it's packed to its limit? and compared to the wort outside the malt tube which in my batches is always exactly at the set temp. cheers

 

[Obliviousbrew]

obliviousbrew you say you cram the malt pipe full, i recently posted that i had trouble recently with an over ambitious grist bill and although circulation was evident the top of the malt tube wasn't getting up to temp, which resulted in a wort that was more fermentable than it should have been, in addition to lower efficiency than expected (the beer is still good but should have been better). i did not stir at any point since i saw liquid flow. so i'm wondering if you have checked the temp at the top of the malt tube before or after stirring when it's packed to its limit? and compared to the wort outside the malt tube which in my batches is always exactly at the set temp. cheers

Do you have the 20l setup or the 50l because the 50l heating element its bigger than the 50. I've checked the temp only once (first brew) and it was ok. I'll check it tomorrow and I'll try to post it

 

[DeGarre]

I got 92% mash efficiency last time I brewed. OG 1040, 4.25kg grain bill.

- 26L in
- rinsed with 8L ie ~2L/kg (ie 34L in total going in)
- I stopped once to stir the mash, would've done this more often but missed all the pump breaks except one doing something else
-rinsing method: lifted malt pipe, took out top grill and broke the hole made by rod, put grill back on. Poured 2L water slowly on top of grill. Waited a few minutes then lifted the malt pipe on top of upside down lid on top of bucket wort dropping through the lid hole into bucket. Spent 20 mins to pour 6L on top of grill, no stirring the grain, lifting malt pipe slightly to let the wort run freely into bucket. Last drops into bucket were OG 1019, target og was 1041 iirc, hit 1040 instead.

Not much more extra effort but perhaps I saved a few pennies per litre. Main thing is to hit the gravity and brew a beer you love to drink.

 

[Obliviousbrew]

I got 92% mash efficiency last time I brewed. OG 1040, 4.25kg grain bill.

- 26L in
- rinsed with 8L ie ~2L/kg (ie 34L in total going in)
- I stopped once to stir the mash, would've done this more often but missed all the pump breaks except one doing something else
-rinsing method: lifted malt pipe, took out top grill and broke the hole made by rod, put grill back on. Poured 2L water slowly on top of grill. Waited a few minutes then lifted the malt pipe on top of upside down lid on top of bucket wort dropping through the lid hole into bucket. Spent 20 mins to pour 6L on top of grill, no stirring the grain, lifting malt pipe slightly to let the wort run freely into bucket. Last drops into bucket were OG 1019, target og was 1041 iirc, hit 1040 instead.

Not much more extra effort but perhaps I saved a few pennies per litre. Main thing is to hit the gravity and brew a beer you love to drink.

+1 on that efficiency its just a number the important thing its to hit your gravity and make the beer you want

 

[dinnerstick]

Do you have the 20l setup or the 50l because the 50l heating element its bigger than the 50. I've checked the temp only once (first brew) and it was ok. I'll check it tomorrow and I'll try to post it

i have the 20. only 4 brews in so i am still figuring out what strategy fits my brewing style best, and how far i can comfortably push the limits of my little german friend. i guess it makes a bigger difference having 2 pumps as in the 50
immer pumpen!

 

[Obliviousbrew]

I'm starting my brew day rigth now I had a problem with my barley crusher the O-ring broke so I had to take it apart and repair it. Im 3 hours behind now but I was able to fix it I'll post the results.

 

[Obliviousbrew]

obliviousbrew you say you cram the malt pipe full, i recently posted that i had trouble recently with an over ambitious grist bill and although circulation was evident the top of the malt tube wasn't getting up to temp, which resulted in a wort that was more fermentable than it should have been, in addition to lower efficiency than expected (the beer is still good but should have been better). i did not stir at any point since i saw liquid flow. so i'm wondering if you have checked the temp at the top of the malt tube before or after stirring when it's packed to its limit? and compared to the wort outside the malt tube which in my batches is always exactly at the set temp. cheers

Just checked the temps the set temp was 62 C on the top of the malt tube was 61.7 and in the bottom 62 C. I´m using the short malt pipe with 6.30 kilos there was room for maybe one more pound but 6.30 kilos seemed enough for me.

 

[Obliviousbrew]

i have the 20. only 4 brews in so i am still figuring out what strategy fits my brewing style best, and how far i can comfortably push the limits of my little german friend. i guess it makes a bigger difference having 2 pumps as in the 50
immer pumpen!

Not only the two pumps but also a bigger heating element in the BM50L help to maintain the temp and have enough power to recirculate wort.

 

[Obliviousbrew]

Well just filled my fermeter with 20.5 l of wort (about 5.5 gal) OG 1070 didn´t hit my limit but close enough and I end up with 1 liter more than what i expected. Mash efficiency was around 87% brewhouse efficency was lower due to the absorption of hops (this is a hoppy IPA) 76% measured. I think that maybe I can fit half a kilo more or so in the malt pipe. A little tired now time to clean up!! See ya!!!

 

[Soviet]

Well just filled my fermeter with 20.5 l of wort (about 5.5 gal) OG 1070 didn´t hit my limit but close enough and I end up with 1 liter more than what i expected. Mash efficiency was around 87% brewhouse efficency was lower due to the absorption of hops (this is a hoppy IPA) 76% measured. I think that maybe I can fit half a kilo more or so in the malt pipe. A little tired now time to clean up!! See ya!!!

Oblivious brew, what was your total grain weight and initial water volume on this brew? Also, how fine/coarse are you grinding your grain? Finally, are you adjusting your mash PH? Do you use RO water or tap?

 

[dinnerstick]

Just checked the temps the set temp was 62 C on the top of the malt tube was 61.7 and in the bottom 62 C. I´m using the short malt pipe with 6.30 kilos there was room for maybe one more pound but 6.30 kilos seemed enough for me.

excellent.

 

[Obliviousbrew]

Oblivious brew, what was your total grain weight and initial water volume on this brew? Also, how fine/coarse are you grinding your grain? Finally, are you adjusting your mash PH? Do you use RO water or tap?

For water adjustment I´m only using 5.2 Ph stabilizer now. Water volume I´m not very sure cause this last time I´ve used water from a natural fountain near by and I boil it the day before to reduce temporal hardness and to kill any possible bug there. I will say 30 liters plus 6 more for sparging but in this case it´s only an estimate. About the grinding of the grain I´ve used a just calibrated barley crusher at 1.15 milimiters (0.046 inches i think) I took a few pictures of the crush/grist here you go: (6.3 kilos of grain)

 

[becks41]

You mean that little black O-ring in the barley crusher that comes with it when you first buy it broke? I took that thing off immediately, it doesn't serve any purpose that I could see other than to get chewed up while you're milling. That crush looks good, and it sounds like you got some better efficiency than I've been able to get so far, what mash schedule are you using?

 

[Obliviousbrew]

You mean that little black O-ring in the barley crusher that comes with it when you first buy it broke? I took that thing off immediately, it doesn't serve any purpose that I could see other than to get chewed up while you're milling. That crush looks good, and it sounds like you got some better efficiency than I've been able to get so far, what mash schedule are you using?

Yup that little black O-ring almost f...ed my brew day. It broke on my very first use but was still there... six batches after the mill was working fine but last time I noticed that my grain wasn´t crush at all so I inspect my BC and found that one of the rollers wasn´t turning. I look some threads about it and found that that was that little crappy o-ring fault it supossed to make the passive roller turn... so long story short I had to run to the hardware store get a new one, comeback and take the unit apart and put the new one on and of course recalibrate the gap of my BC. With the o-ring on no problem at all
About the mash schedule (I know that a lot of you guys don´t do a protein rest and only single infusion for pale malt but I don´t) I mashed ín at 50 C, protein rest at 55C for 10 minutes, then two sac one at 62C for 40minutes and one at 71 for 25 minutes (I think 15 with the second sac rest will be enough anyway)

 

[Obliviousbrew]

Hey I like your signature becks41 "The Reinheitsgebot destroyed German beer culture now it needs to be rebuilt!" It´s really odd to see anybody in Germany with those toughts. Brew on!

 

[rnarzisi]

Reinheitsgebot is 500+ years old, it is German beer culture.

 

[Obliviousbrew]

Double post deleted

 

[Obliviousbrew]

Reinheitsgebot is 500+ years old, it is German beer culture.

This is way off-topic but anyway:

Well actually Reinheitsgebot it´s from 1516 so is less than 500 years old (now don´t argue that it was form 1487 I don´t buy that)...so forget about the +... also if we are going to be strict the purity law didn´t mentioned yeast and also if you think about that William IV had the barley monopoly in Baviera when the law was written it makes you think. It is not my desire to hurt anyones sensibility but the Reinheitsgebot also "kill" a lot of traditional recipes that used something else than barley. I have drink lots of beer made under the purity law some are great and some other are just a pice of crap... so no law it´s going to make you brew better beer. Thank good that with the UE things changed in the way of making beer in Germany... just my 0.02

 

[becks41]

yeah off topic a bit, but to be clear, I'm not German, I just live in Germany. The Germans make great beer, but lack any creativity, it is often times very hard to distinguish a difference between their beers (eg. most Helles taste quite similar), and it's their lack of ingenuity that is hurting their beer sales here. There is an interesting article here - http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/41872277/ns/slate_com/t/buzz-kill-why-germanys-beer-culture-decline/#.T13C_IcS29U

That said, I'm about to keg my pale ale and move my ipa to the secondary for dry hopping, next brew with the Braumeister might be next weekend and I'll check out changing my mash schedule around a bit and let you all know how it goes. Maybe one of these days I won't be too hungover to take pictures.

Cheers!

 

[dinnerstick]

i swear i'm not usually this stupid, but yesterday i did something very stupid! stone sober, as well. i had a very precise schedule, planned it so that i would mash, sparge and let the thing drain while i had to rush out to be somewhere else. grains ground the day before, got my strike water to temp, doughed in and mixed everything very well, was just reaching for the top screen and plate when i happened to notice that there were two (2) plates and two (2!) screens on the table. idiot filled the malt tube with no bottom. let out a string of curse words, paused the machine, drained the water to the fermenter, scooped out the malt with a coffee cup to a kettle. cleaned everything quickly, flushed the pump, reassembled. correctly this time. made a giant mess but somehow only lost about 10 minutes and surprisingly little grain. the malt got an extra ten minutes at strike temp of mid 50's, we'll call it a protein rest. hit all my numbers, actually came out 3 points above target. felt pretty stupid. made it to my appointment on time.

 

[Obliviousbrew]

i swear i'm not usually this stupid, but yesterday i did something very stupid! stone sober, as well. i had a very precise schedule, planned it so that i would mash, sparge and let the thing drain while i had to rush out to be somewhere else. grains ground the day before, got my strike water to temp, doughed in and mixed everything very well, was just reaching for the top screen and plate when i happened to notice that there were two (2) plates and two (2!) screens on the table. idiot filled the malt tube with no bottom. let out a string of curse words, paused the machine, drained the water to the fermenter, scooped out the malt with a coffee cup to a kettle. cleaned everything quickly, flushed the pump, reassembled. correctly this time. made a giant mess but somehow only lost about 10 minutes and surprisingly little grain. the malt got an extra ten minutes at strike temp of mid 50's, we'll call it a protein rest. hit all my numbers, actually came out 3 points above target. felt pretty stupid. made it to my appointment on time.

Well, s#@t happens good thing that was no biggy... and even better that you were 3 points above target that only means better effiency!!!!

 

[Soviet]

For water adjustment I´m only using 5.2 Ph stabilizer now. Water volume I´m not very sure cause this last time I´ve used water from a natural fountain near by and I boil it the day before to reduce temporal hardness and to kill any possible bug there. I will say 30 liters plus 6 more for sparging but in this case it´s only an estimate. About the grinding of the grain I´ve used a just calibrated barley crusher at 1.15 milimiters (0.046 inches i think) I took a few pictures of the crush/grist here you go: (6.3 kilos of grain)

Oblivious brew, thanks so much for the photos and your answer. Here's a little update on what I've done. My last brew day I brewed a witbeir, and came out with 64% mash efficiency, 61.5 brewhouse efficiency—a small improvement, but still quite a bit lower than I'd like.

I have crushed the grain finer than I have (finer than Oblivious brew's crush) before, and this might account for the modest increase in efficiency. Some of that increase might have been offset by the fact that I brewed with about 9 lbs of flaked wheat (which I had to stir a few times during the mash cycle).

It turns out that although my city water is ~7.1 PH, it must have quite the buffer power. It took me like 15 tablespoons of phosphoric acid 10% solution to get the PH down to 5.5 or so during the mash. Without any adjustment, my mash PH works out to about 6.3 or so.

On the plus side, adding a diptube has really increased my overall SYTEM efficiency from a dismal 50% to like 62% since I'm not dumping 3.5 gallons of wort mixed with trub. Still dialing it in, guys. Next brew day (this weekend) I'm going to try to do it with 100% RO water and adjust the brewing water to about 5.5-5.75 before I mash in. I'll add the appropriate salts and give it a go. Never brewed with 100% RO water before, so this should be interesting.

 

[brian320fo]

I'm trying to get a handle on the rest periods. In Palmer's book, when talking about step mashing, he uses only a single rest for Saccharification, compromising at 153*F. Using a lower temperature would favor the Beta rest resulting in a lighter, drier beer. A higher temp would favor the alpha rest resulting in a heavier, sweeter beer. But when using separate beta and alpha rests on the BM, how do we adjust the schedule to reach a thinner, drier beer or a heavier, sweeter beer? Do we change the temperatures for each rest or the amount of time in each rest or both?

BTW, just got this machine a couple of months ago and love it. This combined with beersmith really makes life easy.

 

[Obliviousbrew]

@Soviet you´ll get there in efficiency its only a matter of time
@brian230fo to your question: change both, I use celcius so you´ll have to do the conversion :cross: i mash for aprox one hour for sacarif it can be less than that. It depends on what you are brewing and what do you want. For drier, thin, very fermentable wort a rest for almost one hour between 60 and 63 celcius and the get it up to 68-70 for ten minutes or so. For less fermentable wort you can do 30 minutes on each step and a mash out at 76-78 celsius. Or you can do just a single step @ 65-67 celsius and forget about it. Is really up to you

 

[Soviet]

@Soviet you´ll get there in efficiency its only a matter of time
@brian230fo to your question: change both, I use celcius so you´ll have to do the conversion :cross: i mash for aprox one hour for sacarif it can be less than that. It depends on what you are brewing and what do you want. For drier, thin, very fermentable wort a rest for almost one hour between 60 and 63 celcius and the get it up to 68-70 for ten minutes or so. For less fermentable wort you can do 30 minutes on each step and a mash out at 76-78 celsius. Or you can do just a single step @ 65-67 celsius and forget about it. Is really up to you

Just a little progress report—I brewed yesterday (1/2 alt, 1/2 oktoberfest) and my measured mash efficiency was 79%! Total efficiency was about 69%. I think the RO water + phosphoric acid definitely improved my results (though we'll have to see if I got the salts right) about 5% or so. I was also surprised how easy it was to adjust the PH on a 10 gallon batch. I would have to dump like 15+ tablespoons of phosphoric acid into my city water to get it in the right range. RO water can handle like 1 tablespoon.

A question for my fellow Braumeister users: Has anyone tried to do an overnight mash with the system? Else, does anyone to set their braumesiter to the target mash-in temp the night before? My brew day is still taking me like 8 hours with cleaning... GRRRRR.

-Alex

 

[Redstag]

Sorry for the off topic....But I have a Question that may intrigue. Has anyone brewed a High Gravity beer such as a DFH 90min IPA clone... OG 1.085, on a 50L?
The grain bill is a big one, 34.5 Pounds for a 11 Gallon batch.
The info I have from post # 236: Http://www.suebob.com/images/brew/mlt/mltsizetable.gif
Shows that 13 gallons of water @ 1.25qt/lb has a max grain capacity of 31.2lb. 13 gallons of water is exactly 1cm from the top fill mark on the 50L.
If I add more water (57qt) splitting the difference between 13g(52qt) and 15.5g(62qt) I will have the water needed for the total grain bill.
BUTTT, I believe I will be putting a strain on the pumps and/or maxing out the capacity of the malt pipe/system.
So, I was thinking of splitting up the grain and mashing twice with half the grain each time. I really don't want to cut back on the grain bill and add DME to get to the OG
Any foreseeable problems? Off flavors? Besides being a pain in the backside to brew...
Thanks in advance

 

[Obliviousbrew]

Just a little progress report—I brewed yesterday (1/2 alt, 1/2 oktoberfest) and my measured mash efficiency was 79%! Total efficiency was about 69%. I think the RO water + phosphoric acid definitely improved my results (though we'll have to see if I got the salts right) about 5% or so. I was also surprised how easy it was to adjust the PH on a 10 gallon batch. I would have to dump like 15+ tablespoons of phosphoric acid into my city water to get it in the right range. RO water can handle like 1 tablespoon.

A question for my fellow Braumeister users: Has anyone tried to do an overnight mash with the system? Else, does anyone to set their braumesiter to the target mash-in temp the night before? My brew day is still taking me like 8 hours with cleaning... GRRRRR.

-Alex

69% brewhouse it´s very decent and 79% mash eff it´s great! My brewday started lasting about 8 hs it´s now down to six but with the braumeister are six hours of not very hard work so it´s fine. Find a brewbuddy that helps you with the cleaning, I got a friend of mine that works only to get free beer :cross:

 

[Obliviousbrew]

Sorry for the off topic....But I have a Question that may intrigue. Has anyone brewed a High Gravity beer such as a DFH 90min IPA clone... OG 1.085, on a 50L?
The grain bill is a big one, 34.5 Pounds for a 11 Gallon batch.
The info I have from post # 236: Http://www.suebob.com/images/brew/mlt/mltsizetable.gif
Shows that 13 gallons of water @ 1.25qt/lb has a max grain capacity of 31.2lb. 13 gallons of water is exactly 1cm from the top fill mark on the 50L.
If I add more water (57qt) splitting the difference between 13g(52qt) and 15.5g(62qt) I will have the water needed for the total grain bill.
BUTTT, I believe I will be putting a strain on the pumps and/or maxing out the capacity of the malt pipe/system.
So, I was thinking of splitting up the grain and mashing twice with half the grain each time. I really don't want to cut back on the grain bill and add DME to get to the OG
Any foreseeable problems? Off flavors? Besides being a pain in the backside to brew...
Thanks in advance

I know this is a very long thread but if I remember correctly some people have tried this and it was discuss... I didn´t do a double mash yet but the only problem that I can think it´s been harder to get to your desire SRM colour, with a longer mash it will be a little darker and also your mash in temp. If you do a mash out at 76 cº and then remove the malt pipe and fill it with new grain you´ll have to cool down your wort. If you dough in at that temp (76 Cº)enzymes will be denatured and your efficiency will be hurt. Use the smallest amount of water first and don´t do a mash out, remove the grain, top up with cold water to hit your desire dough in temp and mash again the new grain. I wouldn´t expect a good eff with this but I think you can get a wort of 1.100+.

 

[Redstag]

Thanks Obliviousbrew,
I have the 5gallon malt pipe.
Fallowing your addvise, I will put a little less than max grain in for a 5g batch, mash in, mash, then remove the 5g mp, place the 10g mp in with the rest of the grain.
Top up with cold water then mash in, mash and mash out. As for SRM, as long as the flavor is there I won't mind a darker beer. There are many black IPA's being brewed these days. The next trick will be fermenting this bad boy and being patient with the conditioning phase.
All part of the game...... If you have any more thoughts, please post.
Oh I had another idea, I could do 3 complete five gallon batches with a third of the grain each time, add them together and boil them down.......Just kidding.
Thanks for your help.