Specific Winemaking Questions

[Stevorino]

This is a new thread based on my advanced winemaking instructions thread.

Quick recap: I'm making my first wine kit and am underwhelmed by the basic instructions. I understand that following the instructions will produce a quality product. But I feel comfortable doing more based on my homebrew experience if it will help produce a finer product. I don't care to add chemicals/tannins/extra stuff to the wine - I just want to make the wine ingredients I have reach their absolute full potential.

My specific questions:


1) What is the ideal temperature to ferment a cab at? Pinot Grigio? Is it like beer where you want it on the cooler side to restrict ester/off-flavor production?

2) Is rousing the yeast daily really necessary during primary fermentation? Seems like sanitization hazard.

3) Can the primary fermenter have more headspace or does that volume need to be filled up to the neck of the carboy as well?

4) My instructions have a 35-38 day fermentation process before bottling. That seems fast. If I control the temperature, will it be better to let it sit for a longer period of time? How long is best? Can I let it sit in primary fermenter longer before transferring to secondary? (I don't do secondary in beer brewing - it's unnecessary most of the time).

5) The kit calls for 'warm water' - not sterilized water, not bottled water - So I assume they are recommending hot water from tap full of bacteria. Is this general practice? I would figure best practice would be to heat filtered/spring water up to boiling to sterilize, cover the pot, let it cool to the 'warm temperature' and then use it.

6) Rehydrate yeast or no? In beer dry yeast, there is a huge difference in yeast health/viability when rehydrated vs. pitched straight on top of wort.

7) This retopping off thing to keep down oxidation seems tedious but I understand it is necessary. What is the best practice for topping off? Water or similar wine or wine from earlier in the process?

8) If I used Jack Keller's advanced instructions, how much better is my wine going to be? Significant improvement? I'm more than comfortable with his process.

9) Is Starsan okay for sanitization?

10) Any recommendations for great online winemaking resources for kit making and/or books?

11) How clear will my wine come out assuming I do a superb job? Is there going to be crap and sentiment floating around and in the bottom of the bottles?

12) Filtering/Finings - what is the general practice here and what is the most cost/process efficient way to clear out a wine? Major difference vs no filter/finings?

13) The instructions have me testing gravity all the time - seems like you could waste a bottle of wine in gravity testing alone. Is transferring it right at the perfect gravity important or is it like beer in that you can let it go and it'll take care of itself?

Thanks!

 

[Yooper]

Holy cow, that's alot of questions!

Let's see........

1. Like with beer, this depends on the yeast strain. Some strains, like I think EC-1118 have a temperature range of 55-95! Most are more narrow, but generally mid 60s-mid 70s is ideal. I like mid- high 60s just because I've had great results with every wine yeast strain in that range.

2. Not so much rousing the yeast, actually. You stir daily to aerate/reduce co2 pressure as well as break up any "cap" that forms. This is especially true with fruit (not so much juice) as any fruit poking out can get dried out and then mold. You just want to stir that up knock down this cap. Oxygen being added and co2 being knocked out are just added bonuses.

3. Headspace is necessary, especially for fruit wines (see #2! ). But once you get to about SG 1.010-1.020, co2 production lowers and it's time to get the wine into the correctly sized carboy and airlocked. In kits, they have you leave some headspace at this point, so you can degas. That's fine. Sometimes I've missed the 1.010-1.020 "window" and just moved to secondary at .990 when it's happened fast. That's fine too. Just don't leave it sit in primary for a long time, because after fermentation stops the headspace can be an issue.

4. As I said in #3, do NOT leave the wine in primary if you are delayed. It can sit in secondary for a while. If you're not making a kit, you generally rack every 45-60 days as long as you have lees dropping. Once lees no longer fall, you can leave the wine (topped up) in a carboy indefinitely.

5. My tap water isn't full of bacteria- I can even drink it! Seriously, if water quality is a concern or you have chlorine odors, use bottled water. Otherwise, tap water is fine.

6. Following the hydrating directions on the package is a good practice. But sprinkling is ok, too, just like with dry ale yeast.

7. A similar wine is best, unless your directions tell you to use water. Some of my recipes are purposely made to allow water for topping off. Most often, I make more must up and just keep it in a growler with an airlock or wine bottle with an airlock and use that for topping up.

8. With a kit, I don't think they'll be much difference but in your own wines it will matter.

Someone else can answer the rest!

 

[Stevorino]

Thanks Yooper!

 

[Yooper]

I'm certainly not an authority, but I have a few minutes now so I'll go ahead and finish the list! Others can certainly give input as well but at least I can give some answers to the rest of the questions.

9. Yes, that's perfect.

10. I've never found a really good book on winemaking, actually. There are a few that I'd call "ok" but none like "How to Brew" as an example. Jack Keller's site really is the best source I've found, particularly on 'county wines'- the non-wine grape wines.

11. It should be crystal clear before bottling. I have had one or two grape wines (not kits) that did give me some wine diamonds in a bottle but I've had that in commercial wines also. Even after cold stabilization, some tartaric acid still precipitated out. That's what "wine crystals" are. That's really rare, though, and only in two different wines over the years. Normally, you bottle when the wine is clear and not dropping any more lees. So there isn't any sediment in the bottle, or any haze in the finished wine.

12. Finings are my "last resort" type of thing, as I want my wines vegetarian friendly and don't like the idea of Poly-clar (plastic). Normally, a well made wine will clear on its own. I have had a few (dandelion is one) where there are fine lees for a long long time, with a slight haze, so I use sparkelloid for those. There are lots of finings, and some people do use them. I prefer going with time and cold stabilization to clear up a wine. Often, just placing the wine in a place 10 degrees cooler will cause the yeast and/or suspended solids to drop out.

13. It's important only in that you want to transfer to secondary after the SG is under 1.020-1.010. After that, it's only important to ensure the wine is finished. Most wines finish at .990-.996. I check the gravity when I mix up the must (but since I use a sanitized hydrometer jar and hydrometer, it goes back into the must). Then I check when I rack to secondary, and then at the end. That's about it, and it's only about a total of 6 ounces of wine throughout the process.

Wine is both easier than beer, and more complicated. Easier because it really is straight forward. Make the must. Rack to secondary in 5-7 days. Top up. Rack when needed and top up. Repeat the racking as needed.

It's more complicated also, if you're not making a kit. Acid adjustments, the quality of the fruit, the possible need for sweetening after stabilizing, the potential for adding oak, clearing a haze, etc, all can be as simple or as complex as you'd like.

Most "country wines" are straightforward and relatively easy. Making wine with wine grapes can be a lot more complex because of the acid balance. Overall, none of this is "hard", and just about any fruit can make a decent wine if not a great wine.

 

[Stevorino]

Yooper - I really appreciate you taking the time to answer all these questions. I feel much better about it and am looking forward to doing it w/ my wife this weekend!

 

[Yooper]

Yooper - I really appreciate you taking the time to answer all these questions. I feel much better about it and am looking forward to doing it w/ my wife this weekend!

I think going from beer to wine is easier than vice versa!

I was a winemaker first and although I enjoyed it, it seems like I always wanted to "do" something but the wine didn't require that. Then to wait! And wait. And wait. Really, winemaking is a great procrastinators hobby.

But that is why I started brewing, really. I love beer, but was intimidated by all the stuff to know! Boiling, hops utilization, crushing the grain, figuring out the recipe, treating my water, the sheer variety of yeast, and so on were so intimidating to me because wine is so much simpler.

I still consider myself a winemaker who brews, rather than a homebrewer who makes wine. I'm no expert at either, but feel more confident with my winemaking skills as limited as they are!