Specialty ingredients and additions: Do people even like "beer" anymore?

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StonesBally

StonesBally

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Every time I head into a nice bottle shop or head down to the local brewery or pub I see the new beers coming out, "Pineapple IPA or Rhubarb Hibiscus Saison or, for me especially, spiced beers like pumpkin beers with no pumpkin at all." Who do these beer appeal to? Are brewers and breweries trying to appeal to a wider audience that enjoys wine coolers and jello shots? Do people even like beer anymore? Whatever happened to a nice hoppy pale ale, or does everything need the bourbon barrel/oak/chocolate/vanilla/nut extract/fruit/honey/you know the secret I dump a bottle of hotdamn/schnapps into my beer and now it's world class?

Sorry to rant, but it's getting close to Halloween and all I can see on the horizon is spiced pumpkin this and that. To me it is gimmicky. I truly despise most spiced beers of any sort. Anyone else have any similar sentiments or need to rant about something they don't like about some beers, feel free to let me know here.
 
Hey stones, 1) I go to emu so hi! 2) for some beers I agree. I don't like most pumpkin beers, but the gf does and so I'll have a drink or two of them and try it out. Alaskan has a good porter. Don't Generally like spiced or fruit beer but there are exceptions.

Griffin claw has delicious trippels with cherry or lemon. Whitsun is pretty good imo, haven't had viking blod as its expensive for my tastes.
 
Eh. I try not to dog it, because that's often what sells and breweries are in the business of selling beer. That said, I'm there with you. I'm a straightforward and true to style kind of guy, and the beers I like would probably be boring even by your standards, let alone the average beer snob who wants the latest foodie concoction added to their beer. Give me a nice easy drinking Mild or Bitter any day of the week.
 
passedpawn said:
This definitely falls under the "haters gonna hate".

Let other people enjoy what they like. There's room for everyone on this planet.

BTW, there's about a billion Bud Light connoisseurs out there wondering why we want so much hops in our beer. Haters gonna hate.
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There are a lot of beer fans who wonder why you want so much hops in your beer. its a PRESERVATIVE. :ban: As for the original question, I would not propose that we have a strict law like the Reinheitsgebot, but a *****ebiergebots might be in order. :mug:
 
Since every craft brewery can make a DIPA, an Amber, a Pale, a Hefeweizen, etc, etc, etc, the way they get their beers off the shelf and into your mouth is to make something exotic. There is always a segment who are out to try something new, same as there are some who will always be satisfied with "beer" be that a "traditional" craft beer, or a BMC, and resent the small, small segment that exotic craft beer actually occupies, because they see no point in it. C'est la vie!
 
Although I wouldn't dream of trying to derail people who make flavored beers or those who consume them, I'm not a big fanboy.

I freely admit I may be prejudiced, my experience might be limited, and I may have an uneducated palate. But I recently worked through a whole selection of beers from Samuel Adams that my wife bought me as a token of love (she doesn't like beer). As much as I appreciated the thought and the gesture, my opinion was that every single one would've been better without the herbs, spices and flavorings.

Again, I'm not knocking those who like to enhance their beers. In fact, I sometimes get frustrated with people who don't appreciate the balance, interplay and nuances of seasonings in the dishes I cook.... there are individuals alive today who are lucky to still have two hands, after reaching for a bottle of ketchup or ignoring the sauces on the table.
 
Generally, I'm not a fan of "flavored" beers. That said, my Chamomile Kolsch absolutely kicks ass.

I thinks some breweries follow trends and some don't. It seemed like every dog and it's brother had a Saison out this past summer and more than half of them were some odd (to me) variant.

Whatever. Drink what you like and leave the rest.


--
th Cap'n in Portland, Oregon
 
Those "beers" converted my wife from wine. Considering she wants a couple six packs a week and I sure as sh*t aint brewing it, they just got themselves a pretty stable customer.

Why shouldn't breweries make beer that people buy? I don't get this weird anti-hipster yet really secretly hipster backlash against certain styles of beer lately. Who cares? These companies are businesses, they need profit to survive. If it sells, ship it. If you don't like it, don't buy it. If you say it's flooding your stores or bars, you need to find better stores and bars.

Relax, don't hate, and drink a homebrew...
 
Though I do agree that some ingredients (pumpkin, peanut butter, lime, etc) in beer is kinda over the top, a lot of the ladies seem to enjoy it. That being said, the ingredients for my Bourbon Barrel Porter arrive today.


Sent from my iPhone using Home Brew
 
passedpawn said:
This definitely falls under the "haters gonna hate".
Click to expand...
This cliché is too broad and in itself "hateful." There are levels of haters. I'm with the OP in that I hate most pumpkin, spicy, fruity, vegetabley beers, but I don't hate people for enjoying them or breweries for making them. I love that there's variety and the chance to sample all of them.

That said, I went out of my comfort zone and brewed both a herbal and a fruit beer recently. Tried to reign in the balance from some of the over the top flavors out there. Not surprising, they were both neighborhood hits. I’m still drawn to the tap with a simple Cascade Pale Ale. :D
 
I don't dislike people that may drink these beers. I just can't stand the beers themselves. This rant was born out of tasting a hibiscus and rhubarb saison at work yesterday.
 
As stated I think people should drink what they like and breweries should be making it. Wasn't that long ago there was only ONE beer being sold in the USA, of course lots of breweries were making it but look how far the craft beer and micro breweries have come along to offer Ales and other beers. Bravo to them.
One of the biggest reasons I started brewing my own beer some 15 years ago was no veriety. I lived overseas for eight years and came back to the states to the light pilsner veriety and wanted a good Ale or some other type of beer I could get overseas but not here, so I brewed it myself.
I say the more beers offered the more ideas I have for beer and cider.
RDWHAHB!
 
I guess they'll always be trends, and it's cool that there's experimentation out there with different ingredients. Sometimes it can create a style, or get people to think outside of the box.

The standards will always be there to enjoy. I like to embrace new things that breweries are doing. It's an evolution, and a great time for craft beer right now. We may look back years from now and say, "remember when craft beer was exploding and exciting?" I hope it always keeps evolving.

The only thing that gets me is when you start to see pumpkin beers mid August. I'm not ready for those!! It's Summer damn it! If I started drinking them in August I'd be burnt out form them by the time Fall rolled around!
 
In my experience, a lot of these experimental, spiced, or flavored beers are simply poorly made and only have the gimmick factor to run on. But if people will drink it, then why not make it? As long as there are breweries making good, classic styles, I will be satisfied (and there are plenty).
 
It's a trend. I like to think that a lot of commercial breweries add all these crazy flavors for two reasons: 1. To bring in the new, non-beer-drinking customers. 2. To hide the fact that they don't know what they're doing.

That being said, I have had some pretty tasty flavored beers over the years, but I've had others that were almost riot educing (some Thai Chili Pepper monstrosity). I hope that commercial breweries are making these flavored beers to bring in new customers in the hopes that they will then try some real beer.

Personally, I don't get it. I fell in love with beer when I studied abroad in Germany, so I try to make sure that all my beers comply with the Rheinheitsgebot. I feel like a traitor when I add sugar to a Belgian, even though that's what the style dictates. Call me a purist.
 
I don't typically brew fruit or spiced beers, as I'm a bit more traditional. I like extinct or rare styles partly for the fun of it. Partly for historical value & coming up with a good recipe to sort of preserve them. My wife's first two brews were the BB Summer ale, a shock top clone with zest & spices that was pretty good.
I even brewed a Bavarian hefe with watermelon juice, finally giving in to one I thought sounded interesting. But that's the extent of it thus far. I prefer a good old fashioned beer. Hoppy or well balanced, malty or hoppy IPA. At the moment, of the 4 beers I brewed for summer, I'm getting hooked on Morebeer's ESB-E/SG kit perfect color & excellent balance of bittering, hoppy & malty-roasty. Great flavor. I basically want my beer to taste like beer, not a drink of some kind. But girls & some other folks seem to like them. Saw a young couple in the store the other day where the wife walked out with a 6'r of Weyerbacher pumpkin ale. I thought Pumking was better myself. To each their own, I say!:tank:
 
unionrdr said:
But girls & some other folks seem to like them.
Click to expand...
Waits for the flames . . .
popcorn.gif
 
Yeah, I know. Maybe I didn't say that right? Was up till past 1AM, son getting off work really late & was backing out & up the street by the time he said he had a ride! Dammit, Beavis! And after four home brews too! So I was on my first cup-a-Joe when I typed that...:drunk:
 
I understand where the OP is coming from on this. I believe most people who drink these spiced beers are just following the fashion/in thing. Remember when everyone was doing a red beer of some sort. What happened to those? Sorry I digress. Wh I dislike pumpkin beer of every sort I've tried there are a few speciality ingredient beers I like. Mind you if I had my choice I much prefer a basic english ale or german beer when given the choice
 
I try the different spiced or herbed beer when I get a chance and feel like trying it. I can't help myself sometimes. The flavor combinations intrigue me. But it is very rare that I actually like them. I agree with what was stated earlier, it seems most are done from inexperienced breweries trying to make a name for themselves. Granted not all of them are. But I usually waste my money on them either way. Every brewery is guilty of trying to make a gimmicky beer just to sale some bottles. There is a brewery in Houston that I think makes a living off of this. I can not stand ANY of the beer I tried from them. But every time there spiced beer hits the shelf people seem to buy it.

However a barrel aged beer will always be in my house. There are a few of them I LOVE to drink. The Prairie Artisan Wine Barrel Noir is a favorite at my house. I can't help but drink a bourbon barrel aged beer. Sure some of those are bad beers to. But when you find a brewery that makes one right they are delicious.

I also appreciate what brewers like Jester King do with their beer. They don't put out gimmicky beer although it could seem like it. Most of the beer they put out is really good. They help push the boundaries on what beer can be. I really enjoy that.
 
I felt similarly when all the beers on the market were "HOPS HOPS HOPS!!" style IIPA's; I like a balanced beer, and the slue of IIPA's on the market were anything but; they were palette wreckers plain and simple. However, I just sucked it up, reminded myself that the freedom to do what you want in our market place is the reason I'm into craft beer and this hobby, so I didn't make any and didn't buy too many (gotta try them right?).

Just brew/drink what you like and let others do the same and try not to let it get your undies in a bunch. I read this thing about giving f***s a little while ago, as you get older you have fewer to give, so stuff like this doesn't matter anymore because the important things receive your f***s (family, friends, work etc.) so the trivial things eg. what someone else is doing that doesn't really bother anyone) just aren't worth your f***s.

note to the mods - I hope that was censored enough for the general public, if not feel free to censor as you see fit.

PEACE
 
Fruit and vegetable beers have been around for hundreds of years. There was a recent article in BYO explaining the history of the use of pumpkin in beer. I understand that these were not made the same way or for the same reasons as modern beers and breweries, but there is a historical precedence when compared to wine coolers and jello shots.
 
Agree with many of the others. I personally despise the "I wonder if I can put 'this' in my beer" concept. I would say that, for the most part, spiced/herb/vegetable/fruit/etc beers are among my least favorite. That said, if someone else wants to drink them, who am I to say there is something wrong with it. Personally, I like brewing (and buying) beers that are "to style" for the most part. I know that concept annoys some people. I am also a sucker for overhopped IPA's and DIPA's...... something that annoys plenty of people as well.

As for the various spiced/herbed/fruit beers - Ultimately, breweries are going to make things they think they can get people to buy, and people are going to drink the things that are sold to them...... as long as I am not the one drinking it, it is all good with me.
 
I've said it before and I'll say it again - I like beer-flavored beer. If I want an alcoholic beverage that tastes like fruit I'll drink wine or cider, or maybe a melomel. If someone wants to drink a jalapeño-avocado-okra-peanut butter stout, more power to them. Just don't take up too many taps at the pub.

But I also feel the same way about American IPA's, DIPA's. IIPA's, etc. I like a good hoppy beer from time to time, but the other night I was at a brew pub and EVERY SINGLE BEER ON THE MENU was one of these. Well, other than Coors Light. Throw a man an ESB or a porter, won't you?
 
AnOldUR said:
I hate it when people think that only the beer they like is "balanced". :p
Click to expand...

You missed my point, took a portion of it completely out of context, and modified the intended message.

I'll restate my position for you, more plainly this time.

1.) I was specifically referring to the IIPA craze that had occurred over the past couple years, where brewers were only aiming for a higher IBU score. I did not enjoy the overabundance of hop bitterness with little to no added malt character to balance it out.
2.) I did not say I "only" like balanced beers, but I'd be lying if I said I didn't prefer them and seek them out. Furthermore, I think most regular beer drinkers prefer a "balanced" beer, although maybe you don't grasp what I mean when I say a "balanced beer".

If a beer is just bitter, with no malt character, body, and no head development/retention, or any other of the many aspects that beer is judged on, you get a "one dimensional beer" that is boring. The same can be said of an overly malty beer with no other redeeming qualities.. a "balanced stout" doesn't taste the same as a "balanced IPA" or any other balanced beer, but you know they are balanced because, although they may have an attribute that is more noticeable than the others, the other attributes are still present, and it's clear thought went into the brewing.

Does that make more sense?
 
I'm just not a fan of sweet drinks in general (except horchata!), so I stay away from fruit beers. Never really cared for anything spiced either. But for the longest time I always hated even the idea of putting that stuff in beer.

I've put some thought into it, and I think I figured it out. What I really hate is not the idea of using non-Reinheitsgebot ingredients, but rather some companies using artificial flavors/colors/sweeteners, then claiming or implying it's real. Want to produce a cherry beer because it'll sell well? Great! More variety can only be a win for consumers. But those had better be real cherries you're tossing or squeezing into the fermenter. If not, then
your product is a lie and you are deliberately cheating consumers soley for profit. That's unconscionable and disgusting, even more so than beer with fruit! (Kidding, kidding...)

My darling wife has a hard time drinking anything other than Redd's Apple Ale. I'm still working on finding something I can make that she'll enjoy. Until I can find a hit, I simply insist that she use air quotes when referring to her beverage. Not one set of air quotes, but two separate gestures! Redd's "Apple" "Ale". Ain't nothin' apple nor ale about that stuff.
 
I recently did 4 beers in a row that were fairly stock standard styles, rye IPA, double IPA, scottish export 80 (almost a strong scotch ale), and a Belgian Dark Strong Ale (I did put a tiny bit of plums in during primary). But I also love making fruited beers and such, they present a challenge which is more fun to me.

I like to go back and forth, sometimes I like straight up styles with nothing fancy in them. Other times I want to try something freaky. I know from experience that, theres no such thing as a good pepper beer (I know some may argue with me, but I just cant figure out how these could ever be good and I've tried a TON). An IPA with jasmine/lavender in it is delicious, and raspberry is always good. I'm sure theres lots and lots of bad fruit/spice/whatever beers.

On the other hand, theres just as many 'regular' beers that are bad. I've tried so many style trying to be historically accurate/perfect that just plain didn't taste good.
 
I see a few pumpkin beers, etc, but my liquor store has a darn good selection of traditional styles. I can't complain.

If course, I don't keep up with my neighbors fashion or choice of furniture. For me to worry about the oddball corner of rogue donut beers at the liquor store would make me feel a bit like a busy-body.
 
To me this comes down to a couple points, the first like the OP said breweries are in business to make money so if making something with spices, herbs, or fruit sells well then they'll do it, secondly every person has different tastes so what appeals to one person might completely turn off someone else. It's like food some like spicy some don't, even then what is spicy to one person might not be to another, so what's "hoppy" to one person might be "normal" for another and might be "overly hoppy" to the next person.

I like Belgians, some friends don't like them at all, I get lines from them like "it's like drinking old water," "it's too funky," "they're too sweet like a bunch of dried fruits," you get the idea. I also like porters and stouts that have a more pronounced roast character to them, while others want it too be subtle. Even if you're just talking classic styles the range can be very broad as to what "beer" should be. I think all the beers wiht fruit, spices, and herbs are out there now because they're selling.

My guess is that it'll be this way for a few years then some of it will go away, the "newness" will wear off and breweries will have to adapt to the "next big thing." In the end I think the breweries that thrive and succeed are those that can make the classic styles to keep "true beer fans" and can make the next thing on the horizon to satisfy those that are always looking for something new.
 
I'm very confused. How do you define "beer"? Some of my favorite beers are Belgian beers, in particular lambics, which oftentimes have cherries, raspberries, pear, apple, and many other fruits added to them and they've been like that for hundreds of years. Are those "not beers"? Are they not beers because you don't like them or do you have some other reason for believing they aren't "beer"?

I'm sorry, but this "narrow definition of beer" mindset sounds the same to me as the kind of person who won't drink anything other than Budweiser. If you don't like something, fine. Don't drink it. But don't hate other people for liking it or the companies for making it.
 
I'm all for it! Why NOT try to brew up something unique and interesting? It's not like there is a shortage of boring, BJCP, Reinheits-whatever beer to choose from at the store or bar. So someone goes out on a limb to try to find the secret awesome ingredient that makes a beer a big seller. So what?

For the record, I don't even like most of that crap, but I very much appreciate the efforts, and I always aim to try something new on the off chance I actually like it.

I like hoppy beers, lighter beers, stouts, porters, some Belgians. I had a Lavender beer from Blackrocks the other day that I thought was very good. Lighter, a bit sweet, and probably made for girls, but I thought it was refreshing and an interesting diversion from the same old.
 
I'm pretty much a straight-up barley/hops/water/yeast guy too but I have to say there are some masterful examples of beers with fruit in them - the Alchemist Petite Mutant and some of Hill Farmstead's saisons with fruit come to mind.
 
I'm in the "live and let live" camp. Brewers will never stop making "beer", but as long as the more exotic stuff is selling, they will continue to experiment and expand these styles.

I try to keep three kegs on tap: always an IPA or pale ale, a more seasonal (wheat, ESB, saison, porter, etc.), and then something experimental. The experimental is usually one of these "other" beers, but it allows me to experiment with ingredients and processes, and hopefully improve my craft. I've found that the experimental beers are a good way to convert non-beer drinkers, and for some reason, women tend to gravitate toward them too.

Let's call them "Gateway Beers"!
 
If beers brewed with non-traditional ingredients are made well, they use one to several ingredients sparingly to create unique tastes that often can't be achieved with standard ingredients. And when these well-made spiced/flavored beers are handed to someone in a blind taste test, the taster often cannot tell what ingredient(s) have been added to produce the flavors and aromas they're getting from the beers. Sometimes they can, and that's fine too, but sometimes the subtlety is what makes these beers great. As long as they taste and smell delicious, why should I care if they weren't brewed to some antiquated purity law?

These types of beers can be wonderful achievements in selecting from the endless palette of ingredients available to our community, and can amplify the beer-making and beer-drinking experience for both brewers and drinkers. They've been made for centuries, so I find it hard to classify them as a "trend" or a "fad". Do some breweries do them well, while others don't? Yes, but that can be said of any style.
 
And lumping them into "gateway beers" is also short-sighted (no offense BarleyStanding, not just singling out your post). I've been drinking craft beer of all kinds for over twenty years, and I will always love innovative beers made with crazy ingredients...if they're made well and appeal to me.

Generalizing that brewers make these types of beers mainly "because they sell" is ignoring the vast amount of creativity that has fueled the US craft beer revolution. There's a reason why the US has become such a great place to make and drink beer in the past couple of decades, and its not because we've restricted ourselves to making a few different "accepted styles" strictly to style. Just my opinion.

Edit: Barleystanding, also wasn't trying to imply you were generalizing the "because they sell" point either. I think it comes across as a general feeling held by some in the thread though. I'm sure there are plenty of breweries out there that aren't that original that just try to come up with weird recipes because they know it will sell, but that kind of thing happens in every business.
 

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