Sparge Temperature - Pt. 1: Standard vs. Cool | exBEERiment Results!

[Brulosopher]

It's commonly accepted to sparge with warm water, though there's been some chatter lately about going the simpler route of using cooler water. While others have reported success with the cool sparge method, we wondered if it resulted in a perceptibly different beer when compared to using standard temp sparge water. Results are in!

http://brulosophy.com/2016/04/11/sparge-temperature-pt-1-standard-vs-cool-exbeeriment-results/

 

[BrunDog]

Pretty cool (pun intended)!

 

[Jimbodaman]

Wow great exbeeriment, then again all of them seem to be great and informative. I think it's important to remember it's one data point, I think that the efficiency(and taste) would be more noticeable in a bigger beer (prove me wrong?). Also hot tap water, for me yields the exact same efficiency as 170F water, a helpful tip to anyone whose ever forgotten to heat up sparge water :smack:. I'm not sure how hot everyones hot water tank gets but mine gets really hot.

 

[mongoose33]

One (minor) advantage to heating the sparge water is that what comes out is warmer than if it were cold water. This reduces the time to bring the wort to a boil.

Since, while I'm waiting for the mash to finish, I can heat up sparge water, it isn't costly in terms of time.

 

[kombat]

One (minor) advantage to heating the sparge water is that what comes out is warmer than if it were cold water. This reduces the time to bring the wort to a boil.

Since, while I'm waiting for the mash to finish, I can heat up sparge water, it isn't costly in terms of time.

+1, I was going to say the same thing. I'm always looking for ways to speed up brew days, and since you have to heat the wort up to boiling anyway, it's not like sparging with cold water even saves you anything. Spend the propane to heat it now (i.e. in the HLT, before sparging), or spend the propane and heat it later (i.e., in the boil kettle, after sparging). There are no savings here, but it's an interesting experiment nonetheless.

 

[broadbill]

Wow great exbeeriment, then again all of them seem to be great and informative. I think it's important to remember it's one data point, I think that the efficiency(and taste) would be more noticeable in a bigger beer (prove me wrong?). Also hot tap water, for me yields the exact same efficiency as 170F water, a helpful tip to anyone whose ever forgotten to heat up sparge water :smack:. I'm not sure how hot everyones hot water tank gets but mine gets really hot.

The conventional wisdom (and I call it that because it should be challenged and tested) is that hot water from a tank is exposed to sediment that accumulates there and is not of the same quality as cold water directly from the main which is then heated for brewing purposes.

If anything, I don't think I would assume that the water from my HW tank would be the same as the stuff from my main and would test each if I'm adjusting my water with minerals for brewing.

 

[mongoose33]

The conventional wisdom (and I call it that because it should be challenged and tested) is that hot water from a tank is exposed to sediment that accumulates there and is not of the same quality as cold water directly from the main which is then heated for brewing purposes.

If anything, I don't think I would assume that the water from my HW tank would be the same as the stuff from my main and would test each if I'm adjusting my water with minerals for brewing.

I've been sparging with RO water; I'd think there'd be little sediment.

In fairness, the conventional wisdom may have come from using tap water of indeterminate water chemistry.

 

[HiImBrian]

Huh, I've never even thought of this. While I may not go to cold sparging, I will definitely be lowering my sparge temps in an effort to minimize tannens as well as save on propane. Sure you can make the argument that heating the sparge water will increase the temp of the wort going into the boil, but I have to imagine a significant temp loss through the mash thus requiring the liquid to essentially be heated up twice.

 

[bobeer]

I used to strictly cold sparge because I was too lazy to heat the water in a seperate kettle haha. I never noticed any difference in my beer but it did take a lot longer to reach a boil. So now that I have kids I sparge with hot water just so I can get through the brew day faster and get on to the other many tasks at hand I have on my plate.

As usual, thanks for doing the hard part and experimenting for us and posting the results. It's a truly awesome thing you do so Thank you!!

 

[ryanryates]

One (minor) advantage to heating the sparge water is that what comes out is warmer than if it were cold water. This reduces the time to bring the wort to a boil.

Since, while I'm waiting for the mash to finish, I can heat up sparge water, it isn't costly in terms of time.

+2

Very interesting study. I too find a hot sparge reduces time to boil.

 

[HiImBrian]

Does anybody heat their boil while they are sparging? I think that'd make up for some lost time from a cooler sparge.

 

[kombat]

^^ Definitely, yup. As soon as the bottom of my boil kettle is covered while collecting the first runnings, I light the burner and start heating.

 

[BrunDog]

One thing that this doesn't exactly answer is if there would be a difference between batch and fly sparging cold.

Batch sparging would completely cool down the mash, whereas fly sparging would produce a "front" of not only sweet/dry liquid but hot/cold. Done effectively, the temp of the liquid reaching the BK probably wouldn't be much different.

Also, while bringing up this discussion, my opinion is that this exBEERiment (and others) might have yielded different (more accurate?) results if the author gave the beer some time to age and did not fine with gelatin. Gelatin does have some affect on beer taste, and aging rounds flavors, especially for malt forward beers.

 

[Gavin C]

Braukaiser has looked at this in some detail. I belive he even pesented the data at NHC a few years back.

Here it is from 2009

 

[Gavin C]

...Gelatin does have some affect on beer taste, ...

If you are talking about stripping out hop oils in a hoppy beer I could see your argument otherwise I'd have to disagree with that statement as I have never read anything in support of it.

Care to share a reference/link in support of this idea of gelatin having an impact on a beer's flavor? I'd be interested to read that.

Does your view hold true for all finings like Isinglass or just Gelatin?

 

[AK7007]

RE: the differences in efficiency between cold and hot sparge:

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/showpost.php?p=1222285&postcount=13

 

[dsaavedra]

Does anybody heat their boil while they are sparging? I think that'd make up for some lost time from a cooler sparge.

I sparge cold (I made a thread here where myself and lots of others chimed in with their cold sparging experiences) and I light the burner when all of the first runnings are collected.

 

[WarmGas]

I sparge cold (I made a thread here where myself and lots of others chimed in with their cold sparging experiences) and I light the burner when all of the first runnings are collected.

Wort is most vulnerable to infection pre-boil. Bacteria can set in and sour the wort and even though they won't survive the kettle boil - the sour taste will.

Like you, I always turn the heat on the wort as soon as I start sparging. I use a Grainfather and it still takes a good 30 minutes or more to get the boil going and by then the sparge is finished.

 

[rayfound]

Also, while bringing up this discussion, my opinion is that this exBEERiment (and others) might have yielded different (more accurate?) results if the author gave the beer some time to age and did not fine with gelatin. Gelatin does have some affect on beer taste, and aging rounds flavors, especially for malt forward beers.

Do you have sources for that? I mean, in the very very short term, I agree - gelatin does seem to help a beer mature (drop particulate/yeast), but in exbeeriments to date, we haven't been able to determine a flavor impact.


http://brulosophy.com/2015/01/05/the-gelatin-effect-exbeeriment-results/

http://brulosophy.com/2015/07/27/clarity-ferm-vs-gelatin-exbeeriment-results/

http://brulosophy.com/2015/12/28/the-gelatin-effect-pt-3-dry-vs-hydrated-exbeeriment-results/

 

[broadbill]

Wort is most vulnerable to infection pre-boil. Bacteria can set in and sour the wort and even though they won't survive the kettle boil - the sour taste will.

Like you, I always turn the heat on the wort as soon as I start sparging. I use a Grainfather and it still takes a good 30 minutes or more to get the boil going and by then the sparge is finished.

You won't get souring from bacteria growth waiting for sparge water to heat up, if you are using any of conventional methods of heating. Souring just does not happen that quickly.

 

[Natdavis777]

Does anybody heat their boil while they are sparging? I think that'd make up for some lost time from a cooler sparge.

As soon as wort has covered my BoilCoil, I flip the switch and get it heating. By the time I have collected my 13 gal of wort, the overall temp is usually in 190s and really helps shave off some time waiting for the wort to come to a boil.

 

[HiImBrian]

So for those that begin heating the BK during or before the sparge is up, do you really think the cool water sparge still slows down the brew day?

 

[dsaavedra]

So for those that begin heating the BK during or before the sparge is up, do you really think the cool water sparge still slows down the brew day?

I don't feel like it slows me down. It's maybe 10 or 15 minutes after I'm finished sparging that I am boiling. I use this time to prepare hop additions, tidy up, dump my mash tun, or whatever else. I also think that doing a cool sparge saves me propane though I haven't actually tested this out. I feel like it streamlines my brewday.

 

[SeraW]

On my own setup, I heat the sparge water a bit. But on a friend's, who has two vessels only, a cold sparge out of the water supply works just fine. So, basically, I do whichever makes sense to me.

 

[kombat]

So for those that begin heating the BK during or before the sparge is up, do you really think the cool water sparge still slows down the brew day?

Yes, of course. It's science. It takes longer to heat cold water to a boil than it does to heat hot water to a boil.

When sparging with hot water, I can heat the sparge water during the mash, which I have to wait for anyway. Then the wort going into the kettle is already 160 - 170° F. If I sparged with cold water, the mash wouldn't be any shorter, but the wort going into my kettle would be much colder, and the wasted time would be however long it took to heat that wort up to the 160 - 170° it would have been had I sparged with hot water.

 

[BrunDog]

Do you have sources for that? I mean, in the very very short term, I agree - gelatin does seem to help a beer mature (drop particulate/yeast), but in exbeeriments to date, we haven't been able to determine a flavor impact.


http://brulosophy.com/2015/01/05/the-gelatin-effect-exbeeriment-results/

http://brulosophy.com/2015/07/27/clarity-ferm-vs-gelatin-exbeeriment-results/

http://brulosophy.com/2015/12/28/the-gelatin-effect-pt-3-dry-vs-hydrated-exbeeriment-results/

No, I suppose my evidence is anecdotal. But those exbeeriments were short term also, IIRC. I am not just saying gelatin, but aging.

 

[BrunDog]

It's funny, I put a crap-ton of effort making an on demand balanced fly sparge system with two kettles. Maybe I didn't need to!

 

[HiImBrian]

Yes, of course. It's science. It takes longer to heat cold water to a boil than it does to heat hot water to a boil.

When sparging with hot water, I can heat the sparge water during the mash, which I have to wait for anyway. Then the wort going into the kettle is already 160 - 170° F. If I sparged with cold water, the mash wouldn't be any shorter, but the wort going into my kettle would be much colder, and the wasted time would be however long it took to heat that wort up to the 160 - 170° it would have been had I sparged with hot water.

I totally understand that, but my thought as mentioned above was referring to heating the BK as soon as there's a gallon or so of wort in there. I'd think with the right burner you could bring this to a boil before the sparge is even over thus wasting no additional time.

 

[kombat]

I totally understand that, but my thought as mentioned above was referring to heating the BK as soon as there's a gallon or so of wort in there. I'd think with the right burner you could bring this to a boil before the sparge is even over thus wasting no additional time.

I guess maybe with a more powerful burner, but my burner (Bayou Classic banjo burner) certainly isn't capable of that. At the speed I'm filling my kettle, even if I have the burner going full-blast, I still collect all my wort well before the kettle approaches boiling.

 

[HiImBrian]

I guess maybe with a more powerful burner, but my burner (Bayou Classic banjo burner) certainly isn't capable of that. At the speed I'm filling my kettle, even if I have the burner going full-blast, I still collect all my wort well before the kettle approaches boiling.

ok gotcha. I usually sparge for 30-45 min, so I think this cold be a viable option for me...until I convert over to a HERMs system lol

 

[krackin]

One (minor) advantage to heating the sparge water is that what comes out is warmer than if it were cold water. This reduces the time to bring the wort to a boil.

Since, while I'm waiting for the mash to finish, I can heat up sparge water, it isn't costly in terms of time.

I agree totally and the bigger the beer the more important it is to keep burner time down, IMHO. Just got done doing this and am chilling now. Today my sparge was about 160*. The mash bed was still at 152*.

 

[AK7007]

the bigger the beer the more important it is to keep burner time down, IMHO

Wait, how is burner time more important for bigger beers?

 

[krackin]

Wait, how is burner time more important for bigger beers?

Less burner time is important due to higher sugar density thus potential scorching.

 

[AK7007]

Less burner time is important due to higher sugar density thus potential scorching.

Burner TIME won't affect scorching, burner INTENSITY will. If you are doing it right, the temperature of the pot in contact with your wort shouldn't be that different from boiling. Perhaps it has an effect on Maillard reactions and wort color, but a ten-ish minute difference between cold and hot sparge shouldn't be a big deal.

 

[krackin]

Burner TIME won't affect scorching, burner INTENSITY will. If you are doing it right, the temperature of the pot in contact with your wort shouldn't be that different from boiling. Perhaps it has an effect on Maillard reactions and wort color, but a ten-ish minute difference between cold and hot sparge shouldn't be a big deal.

Good luck to ya.