Sparge question

[Blackhawkbrew]

I did a partial mash IPA yesterday with a full boil. Using Beersmith it said to sparge 6 times with a little less than a gallon of water to get to the pre-boil volume. I kept the water in the 2 gallon cooler for as long as it took for the next gallon to get to 168, then drained into brewpot. This went well and the last few spargings looked lighter in color, obviously. My question is this, is it possible to sparge too much? This was my first attempt at sparging to get the pre-boil volume. I ended up with almost 6 gallons, which boiled down to 5gallons.

Also, I do a late extract addition and mostly use DME. Does anyone have any suggestions for the clumping that occurs when dumping in the extract? I tried a little at a time from a bowl, but then it gets all stuck to the side of the bowl.

Overall a good brewday though!

 

[Yooper]

Sparge 6 times? That's obviously a mistake in the software somehow. Maybe your settings have an error?

If you post that BSM file here, I can open it and see what you see. You can just "export as" and then upload it here as an attachment.

You can most definitely oversparge. A good rule of thumb is up to 1/2 gallon of sparge water per pound of grain.

 

[Blackhawkbrew]

Yooper, I would be happy to do that - if I knew how (my computer illiteracy is showing). I tried to find where you can upload from the reply screen but I can't.

Help?!

 

[Yooper]

Yooper, I would be happy to do that - if I knew how (my computer illiteracy is showing). I tried to find where you can upload from the reply screen but I can't.

Help?!

You go into Beersmith. At the main menu, highlight the recipe. Go up to "file" and "export as......" Click that, and you'll have some choices. Choose to "save only selected file" or something like that. Save it in the BSM version. Then, remember where you saved it!

Come back here, and click the "attach" choice in your reply. It looks like a paperclip. Attach the BSM file you just made. Then close that box when it's done. Finally, click the paperclip and the file you made- and it'll pop up right in the reply like this:

 

[Thumper]

I wonder if it giving that many sparges due to the use of a 2 gallon MLT? With the grain there won't be a large volume left for sparge water.

 

[WBC]

I keep it simple and do the modified fly sparge. I use 185 F sparge water and keep the water 1-2 inches above the grain in the mash tun and drain at 1 quart per minute into my sanitary buckets and that way I can see how much I am collecting. When I reach my preboil volume I am done sparging and get really good efficiency too.

 

[boo boo]

As for the clumping....boil it seperate in a small pot and add it late into the wort boil.

 

[Blackhawkbrew]

View attachment recipes.bsm

Yooper,
I was not able to add attachments under my old account. I upgraded and was able to add it (I hope). Thanks for the help - again!

 

[Yooper]

Ok, I can see it just fine. I'm going to see if I can see your settings (I might not) and then I'll put my settings on it, and repost it, ok?

 

[Yooper]

Yep, I can see that you have the "2 gallon MLT" checked, and to only have the batch sparge volume fill 90% of the MLT. Well, with the grain in there, you don't have enough room (according to the settings) to do more than .82 gallons at a time. Did you have more room? Enough to add more? One thought for next time is to heat up ALL of the sparge water, and add it until you can't add any more. Then drain and do it again. You may be able to do it in three turns, instead of six. Here's the same recipe, done with my system (a big 10 gallon MLT) (I click "adjust temp for equipment" and it gets me right on with strike temps and mashout temps): View attachment oaktree.bsm

 

[Blackhawkbrew]

I added more than the .82 gallons and it was more like a full gallon, which was to the top of the cooler. I ended up sparging like 6 times. I collected about 2 or 3 quarts on the first runnings (the mash seemed "think"). I used 1.25 qrts/lbs. Should I try a thinner mash for partials?

 

[Yooper]

I added more than the .82 gallons and it was more like a full gallon, which was to the top of the cooler. I ended up sparging like 6 times. I collected about 2 or 3 quarts on the first runnings (the mash seemed "think"). I used 1.25 qrts/lbs. Should I try a thinner mash for partials?

I think so. If you go to 2 quarts/lb, then you'll have more first runnings and less need to sparge so much. But when I make those changes in the Beersmith recipe, it gives a warning that you have too much volume for a 2 Gal. MLT. maybe 1.75 will work.

 

[Blackhawkbrew]

Will my finished product have a "watered down" taste, or any off flavors from sparging so much (i.e. tannins)?

 

[Yooper]

Will my finished product have a "watered down" taste, or any off flavors from sparging so much (i.e. tannins)?

I doubt it, but it's possible. I'd suggest next time, doing the thinnest mash (up to about 1.75 quarts per pound would work) you can, and drain. Then, sparge with no more than .5 gallons of water per pound of grain and if you need more volume in your kettle, then top off with water to get you there. It's not ideal, but until you get a bigger MLT and mash more grain (or do something differently), it's probably safest.

 

[Blackhawkbrew]

Thanks for all your help and advice!

Man, I really need to just bite the bullet and go AG!!!

 

[Bobby_M]

I don't know if beersmith has this feature, but you need to tell it that you're going to top off with a few gallons of water. I know it will think you're going to do so in the fermenter instead of the kettle, but it needs to know that you're not trying to derive all the liquor from the mash/sparge. Keep the total mash/sparge volume to 3 quarts per pound of grain, max. For example, 4 lbs of grain would be 5 quarts mash, 7 quarts sparge.

 

[Brocster]

+1 on the 1/2 gallon sparge per pound of grain. I do partial mashes and have been pretty much hitting my OG numbers dead on. I was able to do that once I figured the heat retention of my mashing kettle combined with better sparging. The 1/2 gallon amount has worked very well for me. I hit a Kolsch dead on last night with this.

For the DME - here is what works for me. I do late additions as well. If you have a helper, have one stir pretty solidly, with the heat off, and dump in the amount you want to add at a somewhat consistent rate. Don't go too slow. I usually add in 1.5 pound increments.

If you are by your self, just dump the whole thing in quickly, then stir fast till dissolved. I was having clumping problems when I was trying to go too slow. Once I just dumped it in, then stirred, this problem went away. Again, keep the heat off till dissolved. I know this latter method sounds off, but it works. I think I was being to "cute" in going slow before, which just allowed the DME to sorta pool up on the surface of the wort and clump together.

Hope that helps..

 

[Brocster]

I added more than the .82 gallons and it was more like a full gallon, which was to the top of the cooler. I ended up sparging like 6 times. I collected about 2 or 3 quarts on the first runnings (the mash seemed "think"). I used 1.25 qrts/lbs. Should I try a thinner mash for partials?

BTW..here is what I do and it works very well for me. It took me a while to tweak my approach based on my equipment. I will be upgrading to a larger kettle soon (15 gallons) and going to all grain, but until then, I have been very very happy with the results.

I have a 5 gallon ss kettle for boiling. I use a 3 gallon ss kettle/pasta cooker for mashing. It is pretty thick and holds heat well. I usually go for an amount of grains between 5.5 and 6.5 pounds. I use 1.25 quarts per pound of grain for the mash, and usually have to get my strike temp 16 degrees higher than the desired mash temp. I place my ss mash kettle in a oven that has been pre-heated to 170 then turned off. At sparge time, I heat the amount of water needed, almost always 3 gallons, to 172 degrees, then empty into a sanitized bottling bucket. The bucket is on a kitchen counter.

I then take the mash and dump them through the strainer into the boil kettle. I take the first runnings, put them back in the mash kettle then run over the grains again to get some of the husks out. I then place the strainer that holds the grains over the boil kettle, supported by two bar chairs. Picture the handles of the strainer sitting on one of two chair seats. This keeps the bottom of the strainer just above the boil kettle, and allows me to work solo. I then take the bottling bucket, and open the spigot about half way. This causes a splash pattern that covers about 80% of the diameter of the strainer. I sit by with a sanitized pyrex or pan and scoop a little water here and there to get some of the grain not hit by the spray, but only have to do a few times. This technique takes about 10 minutes, maybe a bit more, and allows me to clean up or attend to other things. Having the temp at 172 or so when I put into the bottling bucket allows it to be at 170 when it is used to sparge. This amount of water gives me just over 4 gallons in the boil kettle when I start the flame. Just enough to get as much utilization as I need, but not so much that boil overs are a pain. I usually have to top off with 1.5 gallons at pitching time which I can live with for now.

I didn't mean to go into so much detail as I am just repeating things said elsewhere on this site, but I just wanted to explain how I do it since your equipment and techniques may be different. Ever since using this amount of water and grain, and using the technique described above for sparging, I have hit my OG's dead on. The last 4 batches have all been at exact target OG's except one, which was only .001 off. I calculate my recipe's for 5.5 gallon batches, and usually have 5.2 or so in the fermentor when I shut the lid. The sparging through the bottle bucket has made things way easy, especially with the spray effect that comes from using a half open spigot. Using chairs to hold the strainer leaves me free to clean and keep SWMBO happy.

Good luck! I hope this helps in some way.

Broc

 

[Blackhawkbrew]

So it sounds like you always do a partial boil and top off before pitching when doing a partial mash. By the way, FWIW my OG was 1.060, Beersmith estimated it should be at 1.054. Does this mean anything efficiency-wise, or is efficiency mainly for AG?