Southern Tier Pumking Clone??

[munklunk]

The flavor is not in the caramelized pumpkin. I did that to my current pumpkin ale and it and the Pumking share no distinct relations. The graham cracker creaminess, in my humble opinion, can only come from lactose and an extract. I think that Southern Tier purposely omits a few of the extract inclusions on purpose.

 

[twoodward15]

95% 2 row and 5% crystal 60 and then 1 pound of pumpkin per 31 gallons and .12 oz of each of ginger, cinnamon, clove, and vanilla per 10 gallons.

I was WRONG!! There is vanilla in it! This the recipe for pumking.

 

[Martin2D]

Well, that's pretty definitive...where did that come from?

 

[Jewrican]

the official source...

 

[Moody_Copperpot]

95% 2 row and 5% crystal 60 and then 1 pound of pumpkin per 31 gallons and .12 oz of each of ginger, cinnamon, clove, and vanilla per 10 gallons.

I was WRONG!! There is vanilla in it! This the recipe for pumking.

Any idea when the spices are added? They are very subtle, there is no in your face cinnamon or anything like there is in other pumpkin beers.

 

[Jewrican]

last 10 minutes of the boil.

 

[runningweird]

the recipe looks legit, but what about the hops? when and how much? I NEED TO KNOW!

 

[mrames]

Go back in the thread and you will find two Pumking Ale reciies with the hops, one from me and one from another guy. The recipes are VERY similar including the hops with the difference being the hop schedules. Take it from me, do NOT use pumpkin from a can, too hard to remove.

The recipe above came from someone on the web who says they got it from the Pumking brewmaster and went on to say don't quote them on the spices. So who knows.

 

[Jewrican]

he said dont quote him on a thread from another forum because he wanted to double check the email.

With that said... there HAS to be more to this beer for that kind of aroma. i had some today and it was just way more than just grains... there is no way grains smell like that... amazing beer.

 

[Moody_Copperpot]

Crack one open again, pour it into the glass and take in a biiiig whif of it. I promise you that one of the main components to that wonderous aroma is the grains. It's a caramely/grainy smell, and there is of course more to it than that, but I'm telling you that I believe of the main secrets with this beer is the technique. They use baked pumpkin puree, says so on the bottle. I don't know if the grains are baked in with the pumpkin or what, but damn is this a good beer.

 

[Jewrican]

the smell is just so strong. I have never smelled a beer so aromatic. you are most likely correct in that a good part of it is just the grains, but there has to be something else there too.

 

[Moody_Copperpot]

Oh I totally agree, there is more to it than just the grains...it's one of life's great mysteries I suppose! My wife and I shared one last night while watching Halloween(1978 version...the only version) and every time I have one I just cannot believe how good it is.

 

[Jewrican]

i can tell you this much... my brew day was a disaster on this beer for new equipment / adjusting to it reasons... we wont go into that (ugh!!)

but while i was carrying the vanilla extract bottle over to the kettle, i squeezed it with the cap on it and had a faint whiff of the air that came out of the bottle... it was VERY much the smell i get from pumking.. there is no doubt at all, that vanilla has a large part in that beer.

 

[Moody_Copperpot]

Agreed. I want to give that graham cracker extract a shot too, out of curiousity.

 

[jessup]

Agreed. I want to give that graham cracker extract a shot too, out of curiousity.

while the graham cracker extract helped, it's still not pumking. i recommend giving the graham cracker extract a shot but don't expect it to be dead on first shot using it. it's gonna take tweaking. my pumkin recipe this year tastes very little of pumpkin and very much of vanilla and graham cracker. still good, but not what i was going for. the buttery diacetyl is not there like it should be. i'm gonna smart-balance my grains b4 brewing next time

 

[Cannondale]

For this years' pumpkin ale I decided to try to clone ST Pumking. I did a side-by-side last and it is very difficult to tell it from the genuine article. The intense aroma, unique graham cracker/raw pumpkin flavour, and spicing are all there. Recipe is based on label/ST website, various forums and my own speculation and tweaking when racking to secondary. I think the keys are the lactose and the ginger/vanilla. I really wasn't expecting that I would closely replicate the unique flavour profile of pumking, so I am both surprised and very pleased with the outcome.

Vol: 5.5 gal
Kettle Vol: 7 gal
OG: 1.090
IBU: appx. 34
SRM: appx. 11

Fermentables:
14 lbs. 2-Row Pale malt
1 lb. Victory
12 oz. Crystal 80°L
1 large Pumpkin (skinned, cubed and roasted with honey then added to mash)
1 lb. Demerara sugar (added after hot break)

Hops:
3/4 oz. Magnum @ 60 min.
1/4 oz. Saaz @ 15 min.

Additives:
8 oz. Lactose @ 15 min.
1/2 tsp. Yeast nutrient @ 10 min.
1 Whirlfloc tab @ 10 min.
2 tbsp. chopped Candied Ginger @ 5 min.
2 Cinnamon sticks @ 5 min.
1/2 tsp. Cloves @ 5 min.
1.2 tsp. grated Nutmeg @ 5 min.
1/2 tsp. Allspice @ 5 min.
1 Vanilla Bean (added to secondary)
1/2 tsp. ground Cinnamon (added to secondary)

Yeast:
2 packs Safale US-05

Mashed @ 152°F for 90 min.

Boiled for 60 min.

Fermented @ 66°F RT for 2 weeks in primary and 3 weeks in secondary. Force carbonated in keg.

Notes: The lactose could possibly be increased from 8 oz. to 10 oz., but definitely no more than that. Excluding the allspice and nutmeg might nudge it even closer to an exact clone, but it is not critical. I think that they key elements are the victory malt, lactose, vanilla and ginger.

 

[passedpawn]

For this years' pumpkin ale I decided to try to clone ST Pumking. I did a side-by-side last and it is very difficult to tell it from the genuine article. The intense aroma, unique graham cracker/raw pumpkin flavour, and spicing are all there. Recipe is based on label/ST website, various forums and my own speculation and tweaking when racking to secondary. I think the keys are the lactose and the ginger/vanilla. I really wasn't expecting that I would closely replicate the unique flavour profile of pumking, so I am both surprised and very pleased with the outcome.

Vol: 5.5 gal
Kettle Vol: 7 gal
OG: 1.090
IBU: appx. 34
SRM: appx. 11

Fermentables:
14 lbs. 2-Row Pale malt
1 lb. Victory
12 oz. Crystal 80°L
1 large Pumpkin (skinned, cubed and roasted with honey then added to mash)
1 lb. Demerara sugar (added after hot break)

Hops:
3/4 oz. Magnum @ 60 min.
1/4 oz. Saaz @ 15 min.

Additives:
8 oz. Lactose @ 15 min.
1/2 tsp. Yeast nutrient @ 10 min.
1 Whirlfloc tab @ 10 min.
2 tbsp. chopped Candied Ginger @ 5 min.
2 Cinnamon sticks @ 5 min.
1/2 tsp. Cloves @ 5 min.
1.2 tsp. grated Nutmeg @ 5 min.
1/2 tsp. Allspice @ 5 min.
1 Vanilla Bean (added to secondary)
1/2 tsp. ground Cinnamon (added to secondary)

Yeast:
2 packs Safale US-05

Mashed @ 152°F for 90 min.

Boiled for 60 min.

Fermented @ 66°F RT for 2 weeks in primary and 3 weeks in secondary. Force carbonated in keg.

Notes: The lactose could possibly be increased from 8 oz. to 10 oz., but definitely no more than that. Excluding the allspice and nutmeg might nudge it even closer to an exact clone, but it is not critical. I think that they key elements are the victory malt, lactose, vanilla and ginger.

Interesting. So, the cinnamon sticks and other additions in the boil did not make it into the fermentor?

Could you pick up the ginger? I've used candied ginger in a saison and it was undetectable. I can definitely taste it in the Pumking.

Thanks for contributing to this thread.

 

[Moody_Copperpot]

But the bottle of pumking says they use Magnum and Sterling hops, not Saaz. Are saaz and sterling similar? I'm excited to give your recipe a shot!

 

[Cannondale]

passedpawn: No the cinnamon sticks and other additions were filtered from the wort when transferring to primary. Tha vanilla bean was added to secondary. I added the 1/2 tsp. of ground cinnamon was added to secondary because felt that there wasn't quite enough cinnamon flavour coming out of primary. The ginger flavour is detectable. I chopped the candied ginger up very fine, which may have been the difference.

Moody_Copperpot: I didn't have sterling on hand. I did have a pile of saaz, which happens to be considered the best sterling substitute.

 

[Moody_Copperpot]

passedpawn: No the cinnamon sticks and other additions were filtered from the wort when transferring to primary. Tha vanilla bean was added to secondary. I added the 1/2 tsp. of ground cinnamon was added to secondary because felt that there wasn't quite enough cinnamon flavour coming out of primary. The ginger flavour is detectable. I chopped the candied ginger up very fine, which may have been the difference.

Moody_Copperpot: I didn't have sterling on hand. I did have a pile of saaz, which happens to be considered the best sterling substitute.

Ahhh okay, that's what I was wondering. I've only been brewing about a year, so I'm still a tad foggy on what can substitue what. You recipe seems very promising!

 

[Cannondale]

I should point out that after roasting the peeled/cubed pumpkins, I mashed them using a potato masher. I think spread it all out on baking sheets and tempered in the oven at 152°F right before adding to the mash. This way, it didn't have to be considered in terms of mash temperature, only water absorption.

 

[daugenet]

For this years' pumpkin ale I decided to try to clone ST Pumking. I did a side-by-side last and it is very difficult to tell it from the genuine article. The intense aroma, unique graham cracker/raw pumpkin flavour, and spicing are all there. Recipe is based on label/ST website, various forums and my own speculation and tweaking when racking to secondary. I think the keys are the lactose and the ginger/vanilla. I really wasn't expecting that I would closely replicate the unique flavour profile of pumking, so I am both surprised and very pleased with the outcome.

Vol: 5.5 gal
Kettle Vol: 7 gal
OG: 1.090
IBU: appx. 34
SRM: appx. 11

Fermentables:
14 lbs. 2-Row Pale malt
1 lb. Victory
12 oz. Crystal 80°L
1 large Pumpkin (skinned, cubed and roasted with honey then added to mash)
1 lb. Demerara sugar (added after hot break)

Hops:
3/4 oz. Magnum @ 60 min.
1/4 oz. Saaz @ 15 min.

Additives:
8 oz. Lactose @ 15 min.
1/2 tsp. Yeast nutrient @ 10 min.
1 Whirlfloc tab @ 10 min.
2 tbsp. chopped Candied Ginger @ 5 min.
2 Cinnamon sticks @ 5 min.
1/2 tsp. Cloves @ 5 min.
1.2 tsp. grated Nutmeg @ 5 min.
1/2 tsp. Allspice @ 5 min.
1 Vanilla Bean (added to secondary)
1/2 tsp. ground Cinnamon (added to secondary)

Yeast:
2 packs Safale US-05

Mashed @ 152°F for 90 min.

Boiled for 60 min.

Fermented @ 66°F RT for 2 weeks in primary and 3 weeks in secondary. Force carbonated in keg.

Notes: The lactose could possibly be increased from 8 oz. to 10 oz., but definitely no more than that. Excluding the allspice and nutmeg might nudge it even closer to an exact clone, but it is not critical. I think that they key elements are the victory malt, lactose, vanilla and ginger.

How much canned pumpkin would you think this equivocates to? I am a bit late in the game for getting fresh pumpkin.

 

[daugenet]

Well I made this about a week ago and cut everything in half. I did have a senior moment and forgot to cut the sugar in half......I hope everything turns out ok and not like rocket fuel

 

[Jewrican]

please be sure to update us on your results as well. I made an attempt at a different recipe that turned out to be a disaster... it will be hitting a local sewer near you shortly

 

[daugenet]

please be sure to update us on your results as well. I made an attempt at a different recipe that turned out to be a disaster... it will be hitting a local sewer near you shortly

Will do. Hopefully it turns out well. From what I can smell it should be good. I have had things smell one way and taste another though. I plan on taking a sample this week so I am excited to get a preview of the taste. I bought some vanilla beans from costco. (way cheaper than the grocery) Right now I plan to cut it open ans scrape the inside and toss it in.

i think I am going to change things up and just leave the beer where it is and toss in the bean and cinnamon. This will give me enough time to finish up my holiday ale and put the pumpking in the 3 gal keg. Hopefully this all works out!

 

[daugenet]

Well I pulled a sample last night and so far mine is like rocket fuel. Right now it is 13.3% alcohol though (my fault). I know this one will need to age to have a chance

 

[Jewrican]

yeah that one will need to sit out a while ha ha ha

 

[Moody_Copperpot]

If you look on the side of the bottle it says
Kettle Hops: Magnum
Aroma Hops: Sterling
Any chance that means they dry hop? Just wondering why they'd differentiate the hops in Kettle and Aroma categories.

 

[Jewrican]

i cant imagine that is a dry hop to be honest. there is no noticeable hop character which you would notice with a dry hop.

 

[Moody_Copperpot]

I know, I can't either but I just find it odd that they say kettle hop, and then aroma hop. Unless kettle hop is another term for bittering hop that I've never heard.