Southern Tier Pumking Clone??

[polkadotninja]

just had this last night. good beer, very smooth.

graham cracker is right!

Hey motobrewer, which recipe out of the ones listed above did you try? I'm going to boil up a pumpkin brew this week and would like to figure out how to add some ST-like graham cracker character.

 

[motobrewer]

oh, sorry, i meant i had the commercial Pumpking....

 

[twoodward15]

lol, I have the actual recipe and there is no secret.

2 row
60L
pumpkin
pumpkin pie spice
hops
yeast

19 Plato is about 1.076

 

[mrames]

ST Imperial Pumking Ale update:
I just transfered to secondary tonight, hit FG of 1.034 corrected for ABV of 9.30% ABV. Tasted pretty damn good so I didn't add anything else at this point. The pulp was no problem except the pulp mass equaled 1-gallon. Next time I will brew with more water to get closer to a 5-gallon batch. It was cloudy going into secondary but am sure it will clear out quite a bit, not sure I can get a clear as original. May do a second secondary to clear up more. They yeast was still active, got measurmized watching it, looked like a bubbling mud pot at Yellowstone. I thought, hmmmmm, I wonder. So I am boiling up two gallons of water and adding two pounds of DME, cooling and adding to the 1 gallon pulp yeast mix, just to see what happens, who knows, maybe I can call it Pumking Guts it turns out drinkable.

Notes: Could't find clone, this is mostly a guess. Orig Target 9% ABV, My Target 8.9 ABV, IBU 22, SRM 8, 1.092 OG, 1.023 FG
Started with 5.5 gal water, ended boil with 5 gallon and a SG of 1.102 @ 84° nc. The wort was very thick because of pumpkin pulp, not practical to strain off so it went into primary, pulp and all, checked SG several times, starts out a 1.110 but settles in at 1.102 nc. Because of loss to pulp, start with 6 gal next time or rinse grains with 1/2 gal water.
Fermentation-Pitched yeast 9/19 @ 2100, bubbling every 45 sec on 9/20 at 1700, every 10 sec @ 2200. 9/21 @ 0800 steady slow, @ 1700 steady fast @ 2230 steady rapid. 9/22 @ 0800 steady rapid, as well as @ 1700 and 2200. 9/23 @0800 steady, @ 1700 steady slow, took SG reading of 1.040 at 72 degrees non-corrected for SG of 1.041, 8.54% ABV. 9/24 every 3 sec @ 0800& 2100. 9/25 ever3 to 8 sec. 9/26 every 12 sec. 9/27 20 sec @ 0800, 24 sec @ 1700. Transfered to secondary @ 1.032 nc at 74 degrees.

Wondering how I will get the pulp out of this, tasted pumpkiny and had an alcohol bite. Pulp was no problem, all had settled to the bottom however the thick mix totaled a gallon, next time, start brewing with more water. Tasted pretty good!

 

[passedpawn]

lol, I have the actual recipe and there is no secret.

2 row
60L
pumpkin
pumpkin pie spice
hops
yeast

19 Plato is about 1.076

You've got a PM. Thanks.

 

[pqler1]

My recipe is very similar to the ones posted here however I threw in a pack of crushed graham crackers in the last 5 min of the boil. Just racked to secondary and going to add a dash of vanilla extract. Will let y'all know how it turns out! Looking at 10% ABV as well. Yowza!

 

[twoodward15]

60L is crystal 60

 

[AwesomeSquad]

My recipe is very similar to the ones posted here however I threw in a pack of crushed graham crackers in the last 5 min of the boil. Just racked to secondary and going to add a dash of vanilla extract. Will let y'all know how it turns out! Looking at 10% ABV as well. Yowza!

Interesting, i look forward to hearing how that worked out.

 

[mrames]

I can't recommend making this ST Imperial Pumking Ale the way I did using pumpkin from a can. I transfered from secondary into a second secondary today and in addition to the ale not being clear, there was over an inch of settled pumpkin in the bottom of the carboy. I racked off as much as I could without bringing in the sludge and probably lost another gallon of ale in addition to the gallon lost in primary. To net it out, the ale tastes good so far but canned pumpkin has resulted in a loss of two gallons of the batch. Since ST's Pumpking Ale is so incredibly clear, I am guessing ST either uses possibly cubed pumpkin or an extract? I can't see how even filtering would make it so clear as the pumpkin particles are so fine. Has anyone used the cubed pumpkin and came out with a clearer result?

 

[jessup]

I racked off as much as I could without bringing in the sludge and probably lost another gallon of ale in addition to the gallon lost in primary. To net it out, the ale tastes good so far but canned pumpkin has resulted in a loss of two gallons of the batch. Since ST's Pumpking Ale is so incredibly clear, I am guessing ST either uses possibly cubed pumpkin or an extract? I can't see how even filtering would make it so clear as the pumpkin particles are so fine. Has anyone used the cubed pumpkin and came out with a clearer result?

this is one of the things you'll see year after year about making pumpkin beers. no matter how or when you do it, if you add pumpkin to wort, you lose a LOT of beer in the longrun and rarely get the flavor you're seeking. commercial breweries have much better filtering techniques and equipment so don't worry about it. just remember to use an extra helping of irish moss or gelatin and hope for the best. plan for longer than normal primary & secondary, and perhaps even a third storage for proper clearing. patience:cross: i mean rdwhahb

 

[passedpawn]

you might try next time without pumpkin, just to see.

 

[Jewrican]

I am almost positive that ST puts it in the last 10 minutes of the boil

 

[polkadotninja]

Has anyone used the cubed pumpkin and came out with a clearer result?

I roasted a 4lb pie pumpkin (cut in half, scooped out seeds, placed halves face down in roasting pan w about 1/4" of water in it, 350 for 1 or 1.5 hrs), scooped out the pulp, and put it in a small grain bag while boiling. It's in the primary now, and blew a little pumpkin sludge out the blow-off tube, but after 4 days there's not a ton of sediment at the bottom. However, the grain bag of pumpkin did shrink a little during the boil, so there's some pumpkin floating around in there, so who knows how clear the result will be.

To passedpawn's point, how much do the good pumpkin ales out there really taste like pumpkin anyway? What does pumpkin taste like ... does it have a taste or does it provide a good texture for pumpkin spices in pies?

 

[Moody_Copperpot]

I can't recommend making this ST Imperial Pumking Ale the way I did using pumpkin from a can. I transfered from secondary into a second secondary today and in addition to the ale not being clear, there was over an inch of settled pumpkin in the bottom of the carboy. I racked off as much as I could without bringing in the sludge and probably lost another gallon of ale in addition to the gallon lost in primary. To net it out, the ale tastes good so far but canned pumpkin has resulted in a loss of two gallons of the batch. Since ST's Pumpking Ale is so incredibly clear, I am guessing ST either uses possibly cubed pumpkin or an extract? I can't see how even filtering would make it so clear as the pumpkin particles are so fine. Has anyone used the cubed pumpkin and came out with a clearer result?

Nope, they use pumpkin puree. It's on the side of the bottle along with the other ingredients they use. They just have a much more advanced filtering system than any of us have access to. They bake the puree, just like most of us have tried doing here, it's just that they have the ability to do things to clear their beer up that we as homebrewers simply don't have, without suffering a loss of wort.

 

[wedge421]

I just want to know how the hell they get the pie crust flavor in there!! I have had a tone of different pumpkin beers and none of them have that character but this one!! I seriously considered mashing with pie crust to try to get it but i was afraid of the butter haha

 

[kanzimonson]

Why is nobody talking about the diacetyl in this beer? This beer has the most diacetyl I've EVER tasted... it almost makes me want to vomit in its butter-gourdy-melony glory. I really can't believe they can get away with it, but a pumpkin ale sure is the place to do it.

I really think you have to deliberately cultivate diacetyl to form in this beer. Maybe rack off and crash cool before the yeast clean it up?

 

[DavidSteel]

I just want to know how the hell they get the pie crust flavor in there!! I have had a tone of different pumpkin beers and none of them have that character but this one!! I seriously considered mashing with pie crust to try to get it but i was afraid of the butter haha

Maybe they finely mill the malt more than they usually would and it gives it more of a distinct taste? Maybe not.. It happened in my centennial blond; then again, it was more of a barely taste and not pie crust lol.

 

[Moody_Copperpot]

It think that taste you're referring to is the vanilla coupled with the malts, personally. Most pumpkin beers just throw cinnamon in there and call it a day. This beer is made with baked pumpkin, which is seasoned.
I gave mine a little taste from the secondary last night. It was good! Not bad for a first attempt, it wasn't an ST clone, but it was good...the only thing was I got a hint of banana flavor...stupid esthers! Guess I'll need to switch the yeast up next time.

 

[Moody_Copperpot]

I have a question. There is an all grain on here calling for a total of 18 lbs of grain total including malts and all. There is an extract calling for only 13 lbs total. I realize you need more malt to acheive what the extract gives you. My question is can I do EuBrew's recipe and cut down the amount of grain/malt at all, and still get something good?
I ask because I am restrained in my equipment currently. I'm using that Deathbrewer all grain method with the bag, and I had a hell of a time fitting 18lbs of grains in a five gallon pot, in fact, they were never fully submerged. I plan on upgrading to a larger pot soon, but in the mean time I'm curious about what would happen if I cut a pound or three of that stuff. Juuust curious.

 

[suprchunk]

Why is nobody talking about the diacetyl

I don't mention it, because I don't get it in my sample. You sure you know what it tastes like?

 

[EuBrew]

I have a question. There is an all grain on here calling for a total of 18 lbs of grain total including malts and all. There is an extract calling for only 13 lbs total. I realize you need more malt to acheive what the extract gives you. My question is can I do EuBrew's recipe and cut down the amount of grain/malt at all, and still get something good?
I ask because I am restrained in my equipment currently. I'm using that Deathbrewer all grain method with the bag, and I had a hell of a time fitting 18lbs of grains in a five gallon pot, in fact, they were never fully submerged. I plan on upgrading to a larger pot soon, but in the mean time I'm curious about what would happen if I cut a pound or three of that stuff. Juuust curious.

You could always sub some of the pale with LME or DME. I'll post an extract version that beersmith converts when I get a sec tonight.

 

[kanzimonson]

I don't mention it, because I don't get it in my sample. You sure you know what it tastes like?

I've definitely made a couple beers with diacetyl in my earlier brewing days. One ranged from a light slickness, to another with the biggest bubble of round-tasting, gourd, melon, english toffee, bite a hunk of butter bomb you've ever had. If Pumking doesn't have diacetyl, then they must use 10% butter in the mash.

 

[suprchunk]

That's strange. I didn't get the diacetyl taste. I'll have to look out for it in the future. But the one I drank two days ago had no diacetyl whatsoever. Or maybe I'm not as sensitive to it. I do like buttery popcorn, which has it purposely added. So I would like to think I can pick it out, as I have made a few early batches heavy in it as well.

 

[Moody_Copperpot]

I drank probably the hundreth bottle (in my lifetime, not this season) of Pumking last night, and something dawned on me. That caramely, almost buttery flavor that gives it that smooth taste is the grains. Is it at all possible that they roast the grains? Even possibly roast the grains in the oven with the pumpkin? I think that we are way over thinking this recipe. The ingredients are right there on the bottle for us. I don't believe they are using diacetyl or anything like that. I think the recipe is as simple as the bottle says it is, but the technique is really what the key is going to be to make this beer.

 

[passedpawn]

I drank probably the hundreth bottle (in my lifetime, not this season) of Pumking last night, and something dawned on me. That caramely, almost buttery flavor that gives it that smooth taste is the grains. Is it at all possible that they roast the grains? Even possibly roast the grains in the oven with the pumpkin? I think that we are way over thinking this recipe. The ingredients are right there on the bottle for us. I don't believe they are using diacetyl or anything like that. I think the recipe is as simple as the bottle says it is, but the technique is really what the key is going to be to make this beer.

There has to be some spices (i.e., ginger) in there. No spices are listed on the bottle. So, I would bet that the list of ingredients on the bottle is incomplete.

 

[Moody_Copperpot]

I agree with you on the spices, I omitted that part from my post apparently, haha. There have to be spices in there, but I feel like I've been over complicating things when I try and figure out the "secret" to this beer is more my point, I guess.

 

[jessup]

i believe this thread holds the secret flavor https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f12/graham-cracker-porter-11244/ but Moody_Copperpot has a damn good point. maybe it's all in the technique...

 

[Moody_Copperpot]

Well that settles it, I'm at least going to TRY that flavoring, what could it hurt?! I really smell the grains when I crack one open. Thinking of baking my specialty grains with the pumpkin next time. Can anyone think of any adverse effects this could have?

 

[DavidSteel]

I'm wondering what most people are doing with the pumpkin addition(s). Are you adding it in the mash, the primary, elsewhere, or both? I'd like to think that I could caramelize the pumpkin in the oven and add a good 20% of the milled grains in the oven with the pumpkin and add at all to the mash, but I'd think that if I wanted to add to the mash, I'd need to let it sit for a lot longer (say ~120 minutes) before being content with tossing the pumpkin. I'd also want to add some pumpkin in the primary as well...

Man, we are thinking too hard into this I think.

But maybe there is something to adding the pumpkin in the mash and letting it sit for longer? Pumking is practically a desert beer, so I'd think a higher mash temp + a longer rest might add some kind of additional flavor, I'm just not sure if it's the flavor we'd be looking for..

 

[Moody_Copperpot]

That's kinda what I'm thinking here...we're over thinking it. My wife and I split three of them this evening. If you drink this beer, it's not strong on spices at all. The main taste is almost this caramely, grainy flavor, with hints of the spices. It makes me think that they perhaps caramelize the pumpkin and specialty grains or something like that. There is no heavy vanilla extract or spicey anything to it...it's just this pefectly balanced beer.