Solved my oxidation woes

[Derp]

The oxygen reacts quickly with the wort/beer so the concentration should dissipate as it binds and reacts.

I meant starting out with differing levels of oxygen and then testing the taste/color over a period of time.

 

[PartagasD4]

I've been having good luck lately gravity feeding, adding 10mg/l SMB to the keg and force carbing. Kegs seem to stay fresh for as long as I need them.

Are you talking "Sodium Metabisulfite" as an antioxidant? I think I remember reading a while back 1 of your post about trying this. So it is working for you then?

 

[wobdee]

Are you talking "Sodium Metabisulfite" as an antioxidant? I think I remember reading a while back 1 of your post about trying this. So it is working for you then?

Yes, I started out with a 6mg/l dose and the flavor and aroma was fading half way through the keg then I upped the dose to 10mg/l and haven't seen a problem since.

 

[PartagasD4]

Yes, I started out with a 6mg/l dose and the flavor and aroma was fading half way through the keg then I upped the dose to 10mg/l and haven't seen a problem since.

Thanks for the reply, I am going to try this Sunday. Would you mind telling me exactly how you do it. I was thinking I would crush a tablet weight out .20 grams for a 5 gal corny and just throw it in. Then do my normal gravity transfer from the bucket spigot to the out post.

I have been topping up with starsan and then push that out. Seal with around 30 lbs so when fermentation is done I have a ready to fill keg. I would lose the seal if I have to open the keg to put the SMB in right?

 

[wobdee]

Thanks for the reply, I am going to try this Sunday. Would you mind telling me exactly how you do it. I was thinking I would crush a tablet weight out .20 grams for a 5 gal corny and just throw it in. Then do my normal gravity transfer from the bucket spigot to the out post.

I have been topping up with starsan and then push that out. Seal with around 30 lbs so when fermentation is done I have a ready to fill keg. I would lose the seal if I have to open the keg to put the SMB in right?

I don't push sanitizer out or do closed transfers. After sanitizing the keg with Saniclean I purge with Co2, rack out from my spigot of my fermenter down to my keg and drop in SMB in powder form once there's a bit of beer covering the bottom.

I have heard of guys doing a closed transfer and injecting SMB solution inline which would probably be better but so far I'm pleased with my results as is. If you go the closed transfer route you probably can get away with less SMB.

 

[jpb2716]

I don't push sanitizer out or do closed transfers. After sanitizing the keg with Saniclean I purge with Co2, rack out from my spigot of my fermenter down to my keg and drop in SMB in powder form once there's a bit of beer covering the bottom.

I have heard of guys doing a closed transfer and injecting SMB solution inline which would probably be better but so far I'm pleased with my results as is. If you go the closed transfer route you probably can get away with less SMB.

I'm interested in doing this as well. Has the sodium metabisulfite added to the kegs affected the beer in any negative ways?

Thanks.

 

[wobdee]

I'm interested in doing this as well. Has the sodium metabisulfite added to the kegs affected the beer in any negative ways?

Thanks.

Not for me but I've heard of others getting a slight aftertaste. Could be you need to figure out a dosage that fits with your system and transfer practices. since I don't do closed transfers maybe I have more O2 for the sulfites to be used up, the same dosage in a closed transfer may or may not have the same outcome?

 

[drgonzo2k2]

Yes, I started out with a 6mg/l dose and the flavor and aroma was fading half way through the keg then I upped the dose to 10mg/l and haven't seen a problem since.

Hey, I was wondering if you knew of any articles, research, etc. around this method? I'm quite intrigued, but searching for "sodium metabisulphite antioxidant beer" didn't seem to turn up very much.

 

[wobdee]

Hey, I was wondering if you knew of any articles, research, etc. around this method? I'm quite intrigued, but searching for "sodium metabisulphite antioxidant beer" didn't seem to turn up very much.

I got the idea from the guys over at Germanbrewing.net. they toyed around with it for awhile but went on to spunding. I stuck with it but plan to spund eventually after I get more equipment.

 

[spittybug]

CO2 is heavier than air, right? I'm not understanding how, when filling a corny and thus pushing out 02 during the fill, any small remaining headspace will get much of a chance to oxidize all the beer below it. I usually swap ball valve fittings and bubble C02 through the dip tube to help carbonate it, thus pushing the oxygen out the top..... Of course you don't get it all, but the layers sitting on the beer will be C02 rich, any oxygen will be at the very top. As the keg is drained, the percentage of 02 drops considerably as more C02 is added....... KOW, I've never had an oxidation problem.

 

[day_trippr]

The "CO2 Blanket" thing is a total myth...

Cheers!

 

[jddevinn]

CO2 is heavier than air, right? I'm not understanding how, when filling a corny and thus pushing out 02 during the fill, any small remaining headspace will get much of a chance to oxidize all the beer below it. I usually swap ball valve fittings and bubble C02 through the dip tube to help carbonate it, thus pushing the oxygen out the top..... Of course you don't get it all, but the layers sitting on the beer will be C02 rich, any oxygen will be at the very top. As the keg is drained, the percentage of 02 drops considerably as more C02 is added....... KOW, I've never had an oxidation problem.

Using this logic if you laid down on the ground you would die from lack of oxygen due to all the CO2 in the atmosphere being at ground level cause it's heavier.

 

[doug293cz]

CO2 is heavier than air, right? I'm not understanding how, when filling a corny and thus pushing out 02 during the fill, any small remaining headspace will get much of a chance to oxidize all the beer below it. I usually swap ball valve fittings and bubble C02 through the dip tube to help carbonate it, thus pushing the oxygen out the top..... Of course you don't get it all, but the layers sitting on the beer will be C02 rich, any oxygen will be at the very top. As the keg is drained, the percentage of 02 drops considerably as more C02 is added....... KOW, I've never had an oxidation problem.

Time for today's science lesson. Gases spontaneously homogenize due to diffusion, rather than stratifying by molecular weight. Watch the following video. Br2 is 3.6 times heavier than CO2, and it homogenizes with air in about 30 min (for two ~1 ft tall columns.) CO2 is about the same molecular weight at NO2 (44 vs. 46.) As shown later in the video NO2 homogenizes much faster than Br2. CO2 will behave more like NO2.

[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_oLPBnhOCjM[/ame]

Brew on

 

[spittybug]

Wow, I guess I should have EMPHASIZED a few words like "thus pushing out" or "pushing the o2 out the top" or "CO2 rich" (not exclusive) and DEEMPHASIZED the one passage "any oxygen will be at the very top"........ everyone put down the guns...... make beer not war.

 

[RedlegEd]

Yes, I started out with a 6mg/l dose and the flavor and aroma was fading half way through the keg then I upped the dose to 10mg/l and haven't seen a problem since.

Thanks for the dosing info. I just tried this on my Centennial Blonde. Since my scale isn't fine enough to resolve to mg, I dissolved a 550mg Campden tablet (I'm using Potassium Metabisulfite) into 50 ml of water. By my calculations, that gives me ~11mg/ml. I sanitized and racked to my keg as usual, the dosed it with 18ml of the solution (using a 10ml syringe,) then put on CO2 and purging 14 times. Think that'll do it?

 

[mike_g08]

I too have a been thinking of oxidation, after a recent IPA went downhill early.

My proposed process is a hybrid of what I have read:

1. Ferment in bucket. Connect hose from fermenter (in place of airlock) onto liquid out side of keg. Connect airlock to gas (in) side of keg. Goal is to purge keg before use, with "free" Co2.

2. Siphon to above mentioned keg following ferment. Purge headspace several times (at least), then add priming sugar solution for natural carbonation in keg.

This seems simple, and would reduce usage of CO2, while using oxgen absorbing properties of yeast.


An alternate procedure (pressure ferment):

1. Pressure ferment in keg with hose routed to serving keg (for Co2 purging) with spunding valve (set to 12-15 psi) on outlet side of serving keg.

2. crash cool fermenting keg and add gelatin solution into keg fermenter (injection)

3. pressure transfer beer to serving keg (after first drawing off a few pints). Dry hops could have been added to serving keg at the beginning of ferment (step 1).


What do you all think? I think the alternative process would scrub the serving keg more effectively, as the CO2 entering the keg would be at 12-15 psi because of the spunding valve.

Additionally, I have read krauesening is beneficial to remove oxygen and byproducts. That could be incorporated into either process, optionally.