Solera question

[Hiphoppity]

Hello,

In a solera, when you empty a portion of the barrel and replace it with new (already fermented by brewer's yeast) beer, do you also add new a new pack of bugs, or do you just let the bugs that already exist in the barrel do their thing?

Thanks!

 

[Funky Frank]

The bugs in the barrel will do a fine job on their own but it won’t hurt to add a pack or some dregs at that time.

I have several soleras going that I started from multiple different mixed pitches from multiple different yeast companies to try to get some diversity but I’ve had better results from adding dregs from different breweries. I have saved and added dregs when I introduced new wort to the solera and I have just added dregs when topping up barrels and I don’t think I’ve seen any difference between those 2 methods.

 

[mashpaddled]

You can but don't need to. The remaining beer and trub will provide more than enough for the fresh beer. If you're using a barrel, then you'll also have brett and bacteria take residence in the wood so even less of a need to replenish. If you ever decide to start over and kill everything in the barrel, then you'll need to replenish with a new pack or return already inoculated beer to the barrel.

 

[MikeScott]

A bit late to the party, but I'm getting ready to start a Solera project using kegs, I was going to cut a bit off the dip tube to leave some trub in there, and never pull more than 3 gallons per keg so I still have a couple of gallons of the old beer to sour the new beer.

 

[mashpaddled]

A bit late to the party, but I'm getting ready to start a Solera project using kegs, I was going to cut a bit off the dip tube to leave some trub in there, and never pull more than 3 gallons per keg so I still have a couple of gallons of the old beer to sour the new beer.

You'll always get an accumulation of trub that eventually you'll want to clear out. If your primary fermentation occurs in the keg you'll probably want to do that every other fermentation. With secondary fermentations you can go several runs before the trub will be an issue.

Your plan is fine. The more old beer you leave behind consistently the overall older age of your solera will be--if that is your goal. You don't need to leave as much beer behind if that isn't your goal. At New Belgium they leave about 20% of their foeders full to maintain consistent souring and used the same ratio when innoculating the newer foeders they've acquired over the past few years.

 

[MikeScott]

You'll always get an accumulation of trub that eventually you'll want to clear out. If your primary fermentation occurs in the keg you'll probably want to do that every other fermentation. With secondary fermentations you can go several runs before the trub will be an issue.

Your plan is fine. The more old beer you leave behind consistently the overall older age of your solera will be--if that is your goal. You don't need to leave as much beer behind if that isn't your goal. At New Belgium they leave about 20% of their foeders full to maintain consistent souring and used the same ratio when innoculating the newer foeders they've acquired over the past few years.

Thanks for the info! I'm planning on only adding fermented beer to the kegs, which should keep the trub down. Do you think not clipping the dip tube would be better? I'm not sure how important trub is.

 

[BPenny]

Thanks for the info! I'm planning on only adding fermented beer to the kegs, which should keep the trub down. Do you think not clipping the dip tube would be better? I'm not sure how important trub is.

I have been doing a sour solera type setup with carboys for the past 3-4 years or so and while I have not found the trub to be a problem, I still try to transfer the beer off the trub every 1-2 years. It makes sense that trub contributes to the long term health of the culture and my personal observation has been that it seems to help with mouthfeel and head retention, but I concur that trub will accumulate whether you like it or not, and I don’t think you need much, so I would never go out of my way to accumulate additional trub.

 

[user 341102]

Planning to dedicate a 5 gallon glass carboy to a solera. I have about 3 gallons of a rye lager (20% rye) that isn't wowing me. Ive loved the recipe in the past, but it came out with too much b-glucan. What are thoughts on using this as a base beer and pitching with LAB, brett, and topping with fresh unfermented wort (1.050ish) of pilsner and wheat (70/30%)?

My thought is that this would dilute the b-glucan and give a lot a dextrins for the bugs to chew on. Is this a recipe for disaster? How much head space would I need to allow?

 

[mashpaddled]

Planning to dedicate a 5 gallon glass carboy to a solera. I have about 3 gallons of a rye lager (20% rye) that isn't wowing me. Ive loved the recipe in the past, but it came out with too much b-glucan. What are thoughts on using this as a base beer and pitching with LAB, brett, and topping with fresh unfermented wort (1.050ish) of pilsner and wheat (70/30%)?

My thought is that this would dilute the b-glucan and give a lot a dextrins for the bugs to chew on. Is this a recipe for disaster? How much head space would I need to allow?

I think it's fine. You may find over time you miss the mouthfeel of more beta-glucans and rotate between which recipe you add with each pull from the carboy.

For headspace I would only fill the carboy up to where it turns to a slope towards the neck. You shouldn't need a blowoff tube if you're just adding two gallons of fresh wort. If you are sparing with opening the carboy, I wouldn't worry about topping it up. If you want to taste your beer along the way, you may want to top it up again and fill it closer to the neck.

Keep in mind that the unfermented wort will produce some trub and you'll need to empty out most of the trub every few years. Not a big deal, but something to keep in mind. Every time you add a new round of unfermented wort you'll lose some headspace to the amount of trub plus remaining beer.

 

[user 341102]

I think it's fine. You may find over time you miss the mouthfeel of more beta-glucans and rotate between which recipe you add with each pull from the carboy.

For headspace I would only fill the carboy up to where it turns to a slope towards the neck. You shouldn't need a blowoff tube if you're just adding two gallons of fresh wort. If you are sparing with opening the carboy, I wouldn't worry about topping it up. If you want to taste your beer along the way, you may want to top it up again and fill it closer to the neck.

Keep in mind that the unfermented wort will produce some trub and you'll need to empty out most of the trub every few years. Not a big deal, but something to keep in mind. Every time you add a new round of unfermented wort you'll lose some headspace to the amount of trub plus remaining beer.

Right! I forgot about trub. I'll brew a larger beer, ferment clean, then put two gallons in the solera. Right now, the IBU are too high, so the new beer will lower that to levels that LAB can tolerate

 

[evolutionary]

Right! I forgot about trub. I'll brew a larger beer, ferment clean, then put two gallons in the solera. Right now, the IBU are too high, so the new beer will lower that to levels that LAB can tolerate

Sounds like a good plan. I would sure mash high on the new beer and you can use just a tiny bit of hop or even lambic hops to keep ibu’s low. Keep unfermentables relatively high if you want more Brett/etc flavors.

I have two half barrel sanke keg solera projects now and the trub isn’t a bad thing. You won’t get a ton if you primary in another vessel and then swap out the old for the new after the new is done fermenting. Brett likes the trub.

Also the remainder for your new batch can be placed in growlers or a smaller fermenter and experimented with. I use one gallon container as a high acetic golden-amber sour beer to mix in as needed, and another as an over-oaked golden sour to mix in for that flavor.

 

[user 341102]

Any advice for specific brett and LAB to pitch? My LHBS doesn't carry anything in this space. I've recently done the uncrushed grain approach to make LAB starters for kettle sours and am intrigued by the idea of spontaneous fermentation with a coolship. But, I'm concerned about growing some unplatable bugs. With a project this long, I'd like some reasonable assurance of success

 

[evolutionary]

Any advice for specific brett and LAB to pitch? My LHBS doesn't carry anything in this space. I've recently done the uncrushed grain approach to make LAB starters for kettle sours and am intrigued by the idea of spontaneous fermentation with a coolship. But, I'm concerned about growing some unplatable bugs. With a project this long, I'd like some reasonable assurance of success

I started one with a 2nd generation Roeselare and the other one with a starter raised from jester king dregs. I dump dregs into each one if worthy, so each is now a mix of lots of different bugs from everywhere. I know adventures in homebrewing currently has 33% off bootleg biology, and you can get jester king there as well as mad fermentationist's blend (would also vouch for that from a few good batches we've done with just that).

 

[user 341102]

I started one with a 2nd generation Roeselare and the other one with a starter raised from jester king dregs. I dump dregs into each one if worthy, so each is now a mix of lots of different bugs from everywhere. I know adventures in homebrewing currently has 33% off bootleg biology, and you can get jester king there as well as mad fermentationist's blend (would also vouch for that from a few good batches we've done with just that).

I had my eyes on the solera blend. I'll revisit this tonight

 

[user 341102]

Finally got around to brewing this up. Mashed at 160 for 30min and boiled with a few garden hops. I ended up making starters from couple wild yeast captures and dregs from a bottle (rhinegeist infinite dawn). Pitched about 450-500ml of each into about 3.5 gallons. Let it ferment for four days before racking my old (carbonated) beer on top.

The starters smelled very pleasant and fruity, but the fermenting beer has some noticeable funk and sulfur. I have at least 9 different strains of ale, lager, brett, pedio, and lacto in there. Not sure why fermentation is going so slow and smells weird. Hoping it clears up over the next several months.

 

[user 341102]

Finally got around to brewing this up. Mashed at 160 for 30min and boiled with a few garden hops. I ended up making starters from couple wild yeast captures and dregs from a bottle (rhinegeist infinite dawn). Pitched about 450-500ml of each into about 3.5 gallons. Let it ferment for four days before racking my old (carbonated) beer on top.

The starters smelled very pleasant and fruity, but the fermenting beer has some noticeable funk and sulfur. I have at least 9 different strains of ale, lager, brett, pedio, and lacto in there. Not sure why fermentation is going so slow and smells weird. Hoping it clears up over the next several months.

Slowly, but consistently bubbling away for the past couple weeks. Smell is...odd. chalking it up to low hop rates. Krause looks unusual. Less bubbly. Thicker, slicker looking bubble layer, but no strange colors. Found a fruit fly in the airlock today. Poured it out, rinsed, filled with new sanitized and covered in foil.