Soapy taste in beer - almost solved - getting close

[mongoose33]

Isn't StarSan's primary ingredient phosphoric acid, which is the same stuff they put in Cola as a flavouring thing? I doubt it'll be StarSan. It's an acidic base which is generally not linked to soapiness. Soapy flavours have always in my books been linked to alkaline solutions, so it might be something to look for.

Star san is tasteless in dilution. Taste some and see. I have. Star-san isn't the issue here.

 

[Tobor_8thMan]

Soapy will normally leave a soapy mark(s) on the glass. Seeing any?

Also, soapy will create rainbow colored bubbles. Seeing any?

I know these are out there, but just trying to help determine what might be causing the soapy and if it's really soap.

 

[Vale71]

Soapy will normally leave a soapy mark(s) on the glass. Seeing any?

Also, soapy will create rainbow colored bubbles. Seeing any?

No it won't. To taste it you don't need that much soap that you will be able to see it as well. Besides, if you have so much soap or oil that it can form a visible film on the beer's surface you'll also have no trace of foam whatsoever.

 

[Nate R]

Star san is tasteless in dilution. Taste some and see. I have. Star-san isn't the issue here.

Occasionally StarSan actually tastes better than the batch I make

 

[passedpawn]

Beer looks totally normal otherwise. I think my process is fairly clean.

The fact that this last batch that I split AFTER the boil should be a big clue. Half of it is undrinkable, the other half was fine.

 

[mongoose33]

Beer looks totally normal otherwise. I think my process is fairly clean.

The fact that this last batch that I split AFTER the boil should be a big clue. Half of it is undrinkable, the other half was fine.

If everything was the same except the fermenters and the kegs, there you are. As @Horseflesh says above, keep track of which are which, and see if it repeats itself.

Here's a possibility: When i use PBW, it doesn't always completely dissolve. I think there's a saturation point or something. It sits on the bottom of the kettle or tub I'm using. Suppose you have some of that oxyclean caked on somewhere in a fermenter (seems unlikely, I have Bigmouth Bubblers too), or in a keg? You might think it's all rinsed out, but it's sitting in a ridge or under the rim or inside your dip tube or maybe in the spigot if you have those....you get the point. I'd check the spigots first if you have them.

So it either has to be the fermenter or the keg. It's a huge clue. It also might not be the specific fermenter or keg that's at fault, but rather, how it happened to go down when cleaning those particular items. The next time, it might happen to a different fermenter or keg.

 

[Tobor_8thMan]

passedpawn is trying to determine the source of a soapy taste. One batch is fine and the other tastes soapy. I'm writing to consider tap lines, fermenters, etc. Something done to one and not the other. One was rinsed more than the other? Perhaps the glass had enough soap? Just throwing out ideas.

 

[petemoss]

You don't by chance live with someone that is a practical joker do you. I could just see someone sneaking down to the basement late at night with some Dawn dish washing liquid.

 

[JaymzMF]

If I missed this in your replies, I apologize.
Was one fermented longer or at different temp? Here is a "soapy" explanation straight from John Palmer.

"Soapy flavors can caused by not washing your glass very well, but they can also be produced by the fermentation conditions. If you leave the beer in the primary fermentor for a relatively long period of time after primary fermentation is over ("long" depends on the style and other fermentation factors), soapy flavors can result from the breakdown of fatty acids in the trub. Soap is, by definition, the salt of a fatty acid; so you are literally tasting soap."

 

[ba-brewer]

I had one batch of soapy beer, luckily it did mellow with time to be drinkable but was always there to some extent if you looked for it. Initially it was very strong and did not take much of a sip to completely coat your mouth. That beer did not fully attenuate and there was quite of bit of yeast still in suspension on kegging so I am thinking it could of been a yeast related thing.

I use the unscented oxyclean(oxy-free?) and found I only need like barely enough to cover the bottom of the scoop (maybe 1/10th of a scoop)added to a 6 or 7gal fermentor to remove stuck on crap when I need to give it a soak. When I used more it seem to leave more of a film and took considerably more rinsing to get it off.

I am often amazed how much starsan (or water) clings to the sides of vessel when you a do a quick dump (looks empty) then reinvert. I get a slight tartness when I have tasted starsan and more of a puky flavor than soapy.
​

 

[passedpawn]

You don't by chance live with someone that is a practical joker do you. I could just see someone sneaking down to the basement late at night with some Dawn dish washing liquid.

Well that would be me. I suppose I'm walking in my sleep

 

[passedpawn]

I'm writing to consider tap lines

Well, that would be crazy but I'll check. I've got 4 taps and a keg of soapy ESB on one of them. I can switch tap lines and check.

 

[Tobor_8thMan]

Well, that would be crazy but I'll check. I've got 4 taps and a keg of soapy ESB on one of them. I can switch tap lines and check.

Are some of the tap lines older than the others? I ask as I've had lines, tubes, transfer hoses, blow-off tubes break down over time.

 

[passedpawn]

Are some of the tap lines older than the others? I ask as I've had lines, tubes, transfer hoses, blow-off tubes break down over time.

They are pretty old - I replaced them all 2 years ago when I changed taps. I might have cleaned them since then - maybe not

 

[balrog]

Something is different, logically. Quick disconnects, lines, tap connects, taps, something.

Or Mother Nature & the Universe are really jerking you around.

 

[Tobor_8thMan]

Also, a friend of mine turned down one of my Belgian beers. I was puzzled as she's always liked everything I brewed. I discovered the following. "People who report that "cilantro tastes bad" have a variation of olfactory-receptor genes that allows them to detect aldehydes —a compound found in cilantro that is also a by-product of soap and part of the chemical makeup of fluids sprayed by some bugs." Of course we all know coriander are cilantro seeds. This was a new one to me.

 

[passedpawn]

Also, a friend of mine turned down one of my Belgian beers. I was puzzled as she's always liked everything I brewed. I discovered the following. "People who report that "cilantro tastes bad" have a variation of olfactory-receptor genes that allows them to detect aldehydes —a compound found in cilantro that is also a by-product of soap and part of the chemical makeup of fluids sprayed by some bugs." Of course we all know coriander are cilantro seeds.

Yea, I'm going to have somebody else taste this beer (as much as I don't want them to go through that). I've got a buddy in the area that brews.

 

[Dland]

I understand that cilantro thing, that would be me. Stuff tastes like soap to me, "they" say it is genetic, and affects 20-30% of population.

 

[Tobor_8thMan]

I understand that cilantro thing, that would be me. Stuff tastes like soap to me, "they" say it is genetic, and affects 20-30% of population.

I learned something new as I previously had no idea. My friend was being nice. I do wish she'd have just told me. Perhaps she's had odd reactions in the past?

 

[Tobor_8thMan]

Also as we all know, definition stolen from the net

"aldehydes (plural noun)

1. an organic compound containing the group —CHO, formed by the oxidation of alcohols. Typical aldehydes include methanal (formaldehyde) and ethanal (acetaldehyde)."

 

[Nate R]

Well that would be me. I suppose I'm walking in my sleep

Ok dude you're a mod, so i have to be careful here... but...
TWO YEARS?!?! you are doing a scientific test and spending all your time and your lines may not have been cleaned???!!!???

I clean every keg every time. I was doing a hand pump but just dropped $18 at harbor frieght for a recirc pump. Best thing i ever done!!

Please dont ban me. At least get my resubscription fees first!!

 

[Tobor_8thMan]

Ok dude you're a mod, so i have to be careful here... but...
TWO YEARS?!?! you are doing a scientific test and spending all your time and your lines may not have been cleaned???!!!???

I clean every keg every time. I was doing a hand pump but just dropped $18 at harbor frieght for a recirc pump. Best thing i ever done!!

I absolutely agree. Clean the lines each time! Get a cheap pond pump, Amazon has these on sale from time-to-time, and flush the beer lines.

 

[passedpawn]

Ok dude you're a mod, so i have to be careful here... but...
TWO YEARS?!?! you are doing a scientific test and spending all your time and your lines may not have been cleaned???!!!???

I clean every keg every time. I was doing a hand pump but just dropped $18 at harbor frieght for a recirc pump. Best thing i ever done!!

Please dont ban me. At least get my resubscription fees first!!

Haha. I've got the garden sprayer pump with the fitting on it, but it fell and the nozzle broke off. Been putting off replacing it.

But really, I've got 4 lines and I'm 99% sure that's not the problem. Will test to make sure though.

 

[passedpawn]

I understand that cilantro thing, that would be me. Stuff tastes like soap to me, "they" say it is genetic, and affects 20-30% of population.

I love cilantro! I've never known anyone who had that genetic marker.

 

[Dland]

You're probably a good fellow, but I guess you will never be one of us....... {;

 

[Toxxyc]

Star san is tasteless in dilution. Taste some and see. I have. Star-san isn't the issue here.

We don't get true StarSan in South Africa that's affordable (we're around R800 a bottle, which is plenty of monies), really, so we have replacement products with the same ingredients. I've tasted it, and to me, it tastes slightly acidic, almost like tartaric acid. I agree though, when diluted further like in a batch of beer, you will never taste it.

 

[ThirstyPawsHB]

Lavander Oxiclean? [emoji57]

Keep it simple.
- Soapy flavor after Fermentation?
-Soapy flavor after Secondary if any?
- Soapy Flavor after day 1 kegged? Day 10 Kegged?

-Deschutes Mirror PA taste like soap to me. Hop combo?

- I use hot water and PBW every 4 beers or so. Otherwise its hot water clean and Starsans only for keg.

 

[passedpawn]

Not tap/lines. I tested right out of the keg, soap.

Last night I added some oxyclean and some starsan to glasses of commercial light lager. No soap.

I'm back to thinking it's my tap water. I have an RO system. I guess I'll start making water with it. I've done so before.

 

[balrog]

Wow. Man I'd hate to have changing water supply so you're playing Russian roulette with your batches.

 

[mongoose33]

Not tap/lines. I tested right out of the keg, soap.

Last night I added some oxyclean and some starsan to glasses of commercial light lager. No soap.

I'm back to thinking it's my tap water. I have an RO system. I guess I'll start making water with it. I've done so before.

Is it right to assume it's municipal water you're using? Some municipal systems draw water from multiple sources, and it's possible yours does the same. I'm also assuming you're treating for chlorine with Campden tablets.

RO water is your savior when it comes to brewing.