So....

[Whiskey]

So the "Guns" picture thread was deleted? That's kind of harsh. Could of just locked it.

Especially seeing this the "18+ not work safe area"....


Just my 2 pennies.

 

[c.n.budz]

It might have been deleted because there's already this firearms thread https://www.homebrewtalk.com/showthread.php?t=26598

 

[the_bird]

I think the OP deleted it. I didn't really pay it much attention, guns aren't my thing.

 

[Whiskey]

I see, I wasn't trying to stir up trouble or anything....

 

[the_bird]

Guns are one of those areas where people tend to have very strong views one way or the other. Personally, I would much prefer if people discussed those topics (as well as politics and religion) on other forums, but we're all adults here and we're not in the business of slamming down discussions as long as they stay cival. Problem is, discussions ABOUT these topics, especially in this format, rarely stay cival for more than a couple of pages.

 

[ohiobrewtus]

Guns are one of those areas where people tend to have very strong views one way or the other. Personally, I would much prefer if people discussed those topics (as well as politics and religion) on other forums, but we're all adults here and we're not in the business of slamming down discussions as long as they stay cival. Problem is, discussions ABOUT these topics, especially in this format, rarely stay cival for more than a couple of pages.

Agreed. I've also found that most discussions about guns (and certain other topics) are almost doomed from the start. Some people are so passionate one way or the other they they become greatly offended and resort to name calling and/or personal insults to others. It's best to just avoid some topics altogether.

 

[Whiskey]

Oh I completely agree, politics and religion topics for what ever reason typically bring out the worst in people (this is especially true on a forum, anonymity maybe?). My only issue with the thread being deleted is that, at least when I last viewed it, it was civil, just a bunch of gun pics. I've been on some forums where politics or religion discussions were down right disturbing. Then again I've seen sports discussions get just as ugly.

 

[the_bird]

Again, that was a decision (I'm almost positive) of the original poster, who I think was afraid that the thread was about to get out of hand.

The problem, IMHO, with discussions about politics, religion, guns, etc. is that people's thoughts tend to be deeply embedded in them and not really up for change. If we're talking about decoction mashing, for example, and I'm Dude and I think it's a complete waste of time, I'm still apt to read the discussion, maybe learn something about it, and MAYBE my opinion will change. Whether I love decoction mashing or I hate it, it's not something that's a core fabric of my beliefs and how I view the world.

Religion; I'm not a religious guy, I would consider myself agnostic; you could talk to me about why you're a Christian all day, and it's not likely going to change my beliefs (err... lack thereof). Politics; I'm a left-leaning libertarean who loves fiscal responsibility and a live-and-let-live approach to social issues; nothing you can say is going to make me into a hardcore Republican. Part of it is how I was raised, part of it is thinking and philosophies that I have developed and integrated into myself for years and years.

So, those discussions... you're not going to get any converts, and when people talk about them in a way that conflicts sharply with your own personal beliefs, well... that's when it gets personal. They feel like attacks on something that's very much a facet of who you ARE, and you tend to react strongly and negatively.

So - let's talk beer, people!

 

[Whiskey]

Agreed. 9-10

 

[Lil' Sparky]

Again, that was a decision (I'm almost positive) of the original poster, who I think was afraid that the thread was about to get out of hand.

The problem, IMHO, with discussions about politics, religion, guns, etc. is that people's thoughts tend to be deeply embedded in them and not really up for change. If we're talking about decoction mashing, for example, and I'm Dude and I think it's a complete waste of time, I'm still apt to read the discussion, maybe learn something about it, and MAYBE my opinion will change. Whether I love decoction mashing or I hate it, it's not something that's a core fabric of my beliefs and how I view the world.

Religion; I'm not a religious guy, I would consider myself agnostic; you could talk to me about why you're a Christian all day, and it's not likely going to change my beliefs (err... lack thereof). Politics; I'm a left-leaning libertarean who loves fiscal responsibility and a live-and-let-live approach to social issues; nothing you can say is going to make me into a hardcore Republican. Part of it is how I was raised, part of it is thinking and philosophies that I have developed and integrated into myself for years and years.

So, those discussions... you're not going to get any converts, and when people talk about them in a way that conflicts sharply with your own personal beliefs, well... that's when it gets personal. They feel like attacks on something that's very much a facet of who you ARE, and you tend to react strongly and negatively.

So - let's talk beer, people!

Well said, bird!

BTW - you're going to hell. (Sorry, couldn't resist. I understand if you delete/edit this.)

 

[Seabee John]

I heard no mention of avoiding the topic of sex... so I assume that still goes with beer?

 

[Desert_Sky]

I heard no mention of avoiding the topic of sex... so I assume that still goes with beer?

yes beer leads to sex in most cases


what are we talking about?

 

[TheJadedDog]

I'm a left-leaning libertarean who loves fiscal responsibility and a live-and-let-live approach to social issues; nothing you can say is going to make me into a hardcore Republican.

Spoken like a true New Englander

 

[Beerthoven]

Again, that was a decision (I'm almost positive) of the original poster, who I think was afraid that the thread was about to get out of hand.

The problem, IMHO, with discussions about politics, religion, guns, etc. is that people's thoughts tend to be deeply embedded in them and not really up for change. If we're talking about decoction mashing, for example, and I'm Dude and I think it's a complete waste of time, I'm still apt to read the discussion, maybe learn something about it, and MAYBE my opinion will change. Whether I love decoction mashing or I hate it, it's not something that's a core fabric of my beliefs and how I view the world.

Religion; I'm not a religious guy, I would consider myself agnostic; you could talk to me about why you're a Christian all day, and it's not likely going to change my beliefs (err... lack thereof). Politics; I'm a left-leaning libertarean who loves fiscal responsibility and a live-and-let-live approach to social issues; nothing you can say is going to make me into a hardcore Republican. Part of it is how I was raised, part of it is thinking and philosophies that I have developed and integrated into myself for years and years.

So, those discussions... you're not going to get any converts, and when people talk about them in a way that conflicts sharply with your own personal beliefs, well... that's when it gets personal. They feel like attacks on something that's very much a facet of who you ARE, and you tend to react strongly and negatively.

So - let's talk beer, people!

Its odd to hear Norm the carpenter talking like this...I never knew he had it in him.

 

[the_bird]

Its odd to hear Norm the carpenter talking like this...I never knew he had it in him.

Don't get me started about the safety glasses!

 

[the_bird]

Spoken like a true New Englander

You know, that's a joke but it's 100% true. I'd have a wholly different outlook on life - equally unchanging, in all liklihood - if I grew up in the Bible Belt instead of Vermont.

 

[ohiobrewtus]

I heard no mention of avoiding the topic of sex... so I assume that still goes with beer?

Sex is still a good topic, as long as it's discussed in the proper forum.

 

[Ó Flannagáin]

You know, that's a joke but it's 100% true. I'd have a wholly different outlook on life - equally unchanging, in all liklihood - if I grew up in the Bible Belt instead of Vermont.

I dunno, I grew up in South Alabama, my dad was a baptist preacher and our ideals are preeeetttty close.

 

[TxBrew]

Again, that was a decision (I'm almost positive) of the original poster, who I think was afraid that the thread was about to get out of hand.

The problem, IMHO, with discussions about politics, religion, guns, etc. is that people's thoughts tend to be deeply embedded in them and not really up for change. If we're talking about decoction mashing, for example, and I'm Dude and I think it's a complete waste of time, I'm still apt to read the discussion, maybe learn something about it, and MAYBE my opinion will change. Whether I love decoction mashing or I hate it, it's not something that's a core fabric of my beliefs and how I view the world.

Religion; I'm not a religious guy, I would consider myself agnostic; you could talk to me about why you're a Christian all day, and it's not likely going to change my beliefs (err... lack thereof). Politics; I'm a left-leaning libertarean who loves fiscal responsibility and a live-and-let-live approach to social issues; nothing you can say is going to make me into a hardcore Republican. Part of it is how I was raised, part of it is thinking and philosophies that I have developed and integrated into myself for years and years.

So, those discussions... you're not going to get any converts, and when people talk about them in a way that conflicts sharply with your own personal beliefs, well... that's when it gets personal. They feel like attacks on something that's very much a facet of who you ARE, and you tend to react strongly and negatively.

So - let's talk beer, people!

Firearms and religion/politics are not anywhere in the same ballpark in terms of heated discussions.

 

[the_bird]

Firearms and religion/politics are not anywhere in the same ballpark in terms of heated discussions.

Debatable. I wonder how much of that is because you're in Texas, though (is there anybody anti-gun in your area?). You can't say that there isn't a geographic element to the gun debate. I live in the most "liberal" area of the country, and the attitudes of the substantial majority of MA residents are going to be dramatically different than yours.

Does it get as heated as religion? Probably not - but it's in the same ballpark, or at least has the same potential.

 

[Lil' Sparky]

Firearms are religion down here. And I'll shoot anyone who would like to disagree with me about it!

I'm going to run for governor. Once I'm elected, Texas is declaring war on the both California and the entire liberal Northeast. I think that would solve a lot of our problems. And don't think we wouldn't win, either - even fighting a war on 2 fronts. We've got more guns in closets (and everywhere else) around here than the National Guard! Hell, we could probably pursuade some of our gun-totin' brothers around us to join in.

 

[TxBrew]

How could someone be anti-guns? I understand the pro-gun control bs but anti-guns? Do they just completely ignore history?

 

[Yooper]

I heard no mention of avoiding the topic of sex... so I assume that still goes with beer?

Wow- I didn't know that.

I usually drink the beer before, because if I do it during, sometimes I spill.

I guess I don't understand the heatedness that happens in those guns/hunting/politics threads. I hunt, fish, am a Christian, pretty liberal politically, etc, and am not offended by those who are different.

The experiences around here (and other places on the net) have shown me that it DOES get heated and worse, personal. I've seen people I like (or used to like, anyway) get ugly and use personal attacks when others don't agree. One of the reasons I like HBT because you guys are all my "imaginary friends" and I like the discussions we have about beer, brewing, and our lives. I think we should all act like adults and not attack others when we are offended by their beliefs.

The most common sense thing to me is to just be aware if the topic says, "Show us your guns", you don't have to read it if you don't like guns. I wouldn't feel the need to read a thread called "hot chicks" but it doesn't mean you guys shouldn't. (Ok, I might read that thread, but I'm trying to illustrate a point here!)

 

[the_bird]

How could someone be anti-guns? I understand the pro-gun control bs but anti-guns? Do they just completely ignore history?

I may be guilty of sloppy semantics; "anti-gun" as shorthand for "pro-gun control".

 

[Lil' Sparky]

And all along I thought they were the same thing...

 

[Ryanh1801]

How could someone be anti-guns? I understand the pro-gun control bs but anti-guns? Do they just completely ignore history?

Thats what im wondering. We had this discussion in one of my CJ classes last year, taking guns away from good people never works.

"... There's no such thing as a good gun. There's no such thing as a bad gun. A gun in the hands of a bad man is a very dangerous thing. A gun in the hands of a good person is no danger to anyone except the bad guys. ..." Charlton Heston

 

[the_bird]

This is EXACTLY what I mean.

To you guys, it's completely self-evident that guns ought to remain accessible (at least to citizens who show themselves to be responsible).

That's NOT the opinion of EVERYONE in this society, and many people feel very strongly on the other side of the issue (more guns being out there overall means that more find their ways into the hands of bad guys via theft, found by kids in the parent's closet, etc.) Note that I'm not taking a stance on this issue myself; I would never keep a gun in my house, but the whole live-and-let-live thing, you know?

You guys seem to feel something very personal about this issue; would you consider your right to bear arms, with mininal restriction, to be a fundamental part of what it means to be an American/Texan? Those are the kinds of issues that become heated, personal, and devisive.

And frankly, the last thing I was to do in a discussion about why certain topics become such hot-button topics is to start a fight about guns (especially since I know you're armed! )

 

[TheJadedDog]

I don't know the thread needed to be closed/deleted. I think only a few of us even commented on it maybe not being the best topic for the board, but a few others made good points about it just being a place to post pics and "show off" so I figured that would be okay. As far as I saw no one asked for the thread to be closed.

My concern was that it could turn political; again, like Bird I am from the liberal North East and gun control conversations get pretty heated up here since NH and ME have lots of gun enthusiasts/sportsman while MA and RI are the bluest states in the whole country (even more so than CA, trust me, I know of what I speak).

Once people expressed that they were just interested in posting pics of their collections, I was pretty much fine with it.

EDIT: I may also be primed on this topic since I just spent 3 weeks with a huge gun enthusiast who pretty much worked anti gun-control comments into every conversation even if they have nothing to do with guns.

 

[the_bird]

I don't know the thread needed to be closed/deleted. I think only a few of us even commented on it maybe not being the best topic for the board, but a few others made good points about it just being a place to post pics and "show off" so I figured that would be okay. As far as I saw no one asked for the thread to be closed.

Choice of the OP, not the mods....

 

[Ryanh1801]

I would never keep a gun in my house, but the whole live-and-let-live thing, you know?

You must live in a nicer city than me. In the big city I would never not have a gun out of reach of my bed. To many druggies up here that like to rob houses to feed their habit.