So Irish ipa?

[jmcvay252]

Thinking of an Irish red and an ipa put together. Has it been done do you think and what's your thoughts about it?

 

[JordanKnudson]

Well, Irish reds are pretty much entirely malt-focused, and obviously IPAs are hop driven. So, your main challenge in combining the two would be getting the right balance of the characteristics.

Red IPAs and hoppy red ales are certainly already a thing (Lakefront Fixed Gear comes to my mind, as it's a favorite and brewed not too far from me). Are you super invested in specifically combining an Irish red with an IPA, or are you just looking for a malty, red-hued beer with a strong hop presence?

My main concern when it comes to balancing the two would be that Irish reds tend to have a caramel sweetness to them (which, strictly as personal preference, I dislike when combined with the bitter punch of an IPA) and can have some diacetyl, which will no go well with a hop-forward beer.

 

[jmcvay252]

Ya I was just thinking have that nice sweet caramel sweetness at first then have some what of a bitter punch after that would pair well with it. Kinda like say chocolate that has chili powder you know sweet at first then hits you with the spicyness same kind of concept is what I was thinking?

 

[JordanKnudson]

I would say give it a shot. No harm in that, and you might find that you really like it.

I personally do not like the combination of caramel sweetness and strong hop bitterness together. I've had several IPAs brewed here in the Midwest that try to use lots of caramel malt to counteract the IBUs and I think it's a little gross, mainly because it isn't a one-then-the-other situation, but rather very bitter AND very sweet at the same time (which is sort of like just putting on deodorant after working out instead of showering -- you aren't magically clean, you just smell like sweat and deodorant layered on top of each other).

Still, that's just my personal preference, and I think that if your idea appeals to you, you should go for it. Worst that can happen is that you decide it isn't for you. At best, you find a new house brew! Just be careful of that Irish ale yeast throwing diacetyl -- that won't play in a beer like this.

 

[dkennedy]

Ever had G'Knight (formerly Gordon) from Oskar Blues? Big sticky red ale with a hop punch (they label it as an Imperial Red Ale). Might not be an exact Irish Red, but would have the color, quite a malt backbone, and an IPA-esque hopping.

I've seen a couple clone attempts on here, I'll stick the links that look solid below. They might have changed up the hop regimen, know that they've been limiting certain hops (centennial) and integrating others (comet ), I can try to confirm the current hopping when I'm in CO next week. I think that you could gate back the recipe if you want a lower gravity version, although the full strength is one of my favorite beers (especially on nitro).

Brewed Oskar Blues Gordon Clone today

Can You Brew It recipe for Oskar Blue's Gordon

 

[JordanKnudson]

Do you have any ideas on what you want to use in your recipe? I'm (cautiously) curious enough about it that I want to see how it turns out for you.

 

[jmcvay252]

Ya so I was playing around with it yesterday may just do and English ipa I'm not sure though still playing with this. Let me know what yall think. And let me know some personal opinions on anything.

View attachment 1433416849819.jpg

 

[jmcvay252]

I'm not sure how long I should boil each hop for also still new at all this.

 

[JordanKnudson]

I would suggest reducing the caramel malt (most people don't go above 1 pound, 1.5 at most, even in big beers; you don't need to scale up specialty malts proportionately when "imperializing" something).

Also, you have all three of your hop additions at 60 minutes, which will leave you with plenty of ibus but pretty much zero flavor and aroma contribution. I'd use something neutral like Magnum for bittering, and throw all of your Centennial and EKG in at the end of the boil, as well as some extra for dry hop.

No idea how "new" you actually are at the hobby, but if you only have a few batches under your belt, I'd hold off on making a 1.090 beer for now. Try the same beer reduced down to 1.055-ish, and if you love it but want more alcohol, then try it again with the higher OG. (The vagaries of yeast health in big beers aside, if the recipe doesn't turn out well, you don't want to end up with 5 gallons of 9.3% abv beer that you don't enjoy. You'll never drink it).

 

[jmcvay252]

Ok cool I'll rework it today after work then post it up again. Ya this is only my 5 batch I think I've learning alot of what not to do but I'm a fast learner so I enjoy the challenge. But I'll take your advice and change it to American or English ipa for the practice. Thanks again.

 

[JordanKnudson]

You could still try using the Irish ale yeast, just to see how it would do. (Just read up a little on it first; it's not hard to work with, but as I mentioned, it can produce some diacetyl).

Make sure to update us on how this goes!

 

[jmcvay252]

Ok

 

[jmcvay252]

So I changed it to a pale ale style according to beersmith but lessened the hops and changed the hops times.

 

[jmcvay252]

.

View attachment 1433554948826.jpg

 

[JordanKnudson]

That is probably a more effective hopping schedule, and will likely get you a better result. If you wanted, you could even just bitter with a full ounce of Magnum and get all your ibus from there, and toss your Centennial and EKGs in at flameout (or do a hopstand at around 180 degrees for 30 minutes, if you have the control in your process to do that).

Can I ask, why are your hop quantities so specific? Are you just trying to get very specific ibu numbers? Again, you'd get roughly the same amount of bitterness with a 1-ounce charge of Magnum, and then you could do a hopstand with the full ounce each of EKG and Centennial. Remember that the ibu number doesn't tell you the full story of your hops' contribution, only the bitterness. Counterintuitively, the longer a hop sits in the boil, the less flavor and aroma contribution it actually makes, as those volatile oils boil off.

 

[jmcvay252]

Ok I'll try the two doing a hopstand since I've never tried that before. And the quantity is just what beersmith threw in there when I set the Ibu number I'll do the hop stand and keep what I have for hops just for learning perposes unless you strongly suggest the 1 ounce each.

 

[JordanKnudson]

So, I don't want to write the recipe for you (I feel like my posts here are verging on telling you what to do rather than just giving helpful hints, so I apologize for that!). That said, I would suggest an ounce each, as that will ensure you get a big hop character in the final beer. Less could work, but for an IPA-esque beer you want to get a big hop presence, and a large [quantity] hopstand goes a long way toward accomplishing that.

One other note -- if you input 2 oz of hops for a 30 minute steep/whirlpool into beersmith, it is going to spit out a ludicrously high IBU contribution that (on paper) looks like it will ruin the beer. Don't be intimidated by this -- Beersmith is a great program, but its calculations for hopstand ibu contributions are notoriously unreliable. Hop utilization decreases substantially once you get below boiling temperatures, and if you do your hopstand around 180-190F, you are looking essentially a zero ibu contribution -- flavor/aroma only!

 

[jmcvay252]

Sweet. Ya I hear what your saying I'll give it a wurl with the amounts you said and if it's to much for me then next time I'll know but I've yet to have any ipa I can't handle. Thanks for the info. I'll have this drink able in about two months from now cause I'm going on vacation this week so this is a project I'm setting up for when I get back. I'll let you know how it turns out and post pics of the final product.