So frustrated with my IPA's!

[TheMadKing]

I agree with the "add boil hops" and reverse your S/Cl ratio crowds. For me the hop flavor of a good American IPA needs to have both bitterness and the juicy aroma from the whirlpool. Without both it is missing something, in the same way that a song without bass sounds all bright and tinny, but a song with only bass feels boring and rhythmic. I also think you may be overly focused on the wrong details (oxygen exposure) rather than perfecting the hop schedule first. No offense intended, but if the beer is crappy to begin with, making sure it has shelf-life isn't the priority.

One thing that might also help is adding a little sodium (like 1.5g NaCl). I've found that salt accentuates flavor in beer the same way it does in food, but you have to be careful with the amount.

 

[Nomofett]

Fid you read this?
Tips for the Infamous "super hoppy" IPA/IIPA https://www.homebrewtalk.com/showthread.php?t=478357

And listen to this?
http://beersmith.com/blog/2012/11/13/brewing-india-pale-ale-ipas-with-mitch-steele/

 

[catdaddy66]

There is a big shift in the way hops are being used in brewing. Alot of what we thought we knew is wrong. I just read a really great article discussing exactly what you've been doing, and why that is the way a lot of breweries are going these days. felt it might be relevant to this thread.

Article Here: http://allaboutbeer.com/article/hop-shift/

Great read! Thanks for posting.

 

[schematix]

As others have said:

You need bittering hops - totally agree. not saying you need 100 IBU, but throw in at least 0.5-1oz.
Water profile is lacking - i suggest you try brun'water pale ale profile. It has 300ppm sulfate. I find it much better than even 150ppm.

A few other things i'd mention:
1. Quantity of hops - i think you're on the low end for a really hoppy beer. I think you need 12-16oz spread across boil, late, KO and dry hop.
2. Dry hops - These have a huge aroma impact. I've experimented with a lot of IPAs without dry hops and they all were blah. If you're worried about O2 pickup, add then right at the end of fermentation so the O2 gets consumed by the yeast, but not so soon so that the CO2 scrubs out the hop aroma.
3. Keg purge - look up water purging a keg. you can't gas purge and get enough O2 out. It only takes a few ppm of O2 to degrade an IPA.

 

[doug293cz]

...

3. Keg purge - look up water purging a keg. you can't gas purge and get enough O2 out. It only takes a few ppm of O2 to degrade an IPA.

Actually, you can gas purge an empty keg adequately. But, you need to purge 13 times at 30 psi to get 0.11 ppm O2, and it will cost you about 2.2 lbs of CO2. A liquid purge costs about 0.11 lb of CO2. Do the liquid purge.

Brew on

 

[gotbags-10]

Yeah I only do the gas purge about 5 times at 30 psi. I will switch to the liquid/starsan purge. Also I'm going to take my FO hops and distribute during the boil. Going T try upping my sulfates as well. Brewing this weekend so will deff report back the differences.

 

[schematix]

Yeah I only do the gas purge about 5 times at 30 psi. I will switch to the liquid/starsan purge. Also I'm going to take my FO hops and distribute during the boil. Going T try upping my sulfates as well. Brewing this weekend so will deff report back the differences.

Huge waste of CO2. Water purging is a huge waste of water, but much cheaper.

When water purging a keg it is important to completely purge the keg of all air. This means filling to the rim, installing the lid, and then continuing to fill through the liquid dip tube with the pressure relief open and a gas QD attached. (Go Slow). Once you have water coming out of both, disconnect the gas QD, then shut off your supply water and then close the PRV. Alternately you could close the PRV and disconnect the water so long as you do them at nearly the same time. There is surprising amount of head space in a 'full keg'. Don't go through the efforts of a water purge and not use it to the full extent.

After the keg is full of water its time to purge. Start filling with CO2 and connect somethign to the liquid QD side. Either collect your starsan for further use or send it to the drain. For sake of time i like to run it at about 30 PSI for the first few minutes, then i'll ramp it down to about 10 to finish. You could go lower but it'll take longer to push the water out. Once the keg starts to sputter tilt it around for a few rotations to get as much water out as you can, then pull off the liquid QD. Wait a moment then pull off the gas QD.

If you are rackign under pressure you can use the remaining CO2 in the tank to purge your racking line! Vent most of the CO2 out through the PRV first. Then attach your racking cane to the liquid side - DO NOT DO THIS WHILE SUBMERGED IN THE BEER. Once almost all of the CO2 has pushed out, pull off the rackign cane from the liquid QD. Attach gas to the fermenter, insert the racking cane and apply a few psi of pressure (or whatever you like within your vessels limits). Once pressure is up, connect the gas QD back and the beer will star to flow. Open the PRV on the keg to allow back pressure to be relieved.

When the beer is almost done racking watch it carefully. The moment you see gas or trub getting sucked in rapidly close the PRV and pop the liquid disconnect off. Immediately pressurize the keg with 10+ pounds of CO2 to make sure it is sealed.

Done.

 

[Stillraining]

Wow! great tutorial, but I think I can bottle 5 gallons of beer in the same length of time..

 

[schematix]

Wow! great tutorial, but I think I can bottle 5 gallons of beer in the same length of time..

Perhaps, but you won't be transferring in oxygen free purged containers. Apples to oranges.



Not to mention you have to clean and sanitize 50 bottles.



Doing in bulk speeds things up too...

View attachment ImageUploadedByHome Brew1467163907.175335.jpg

 

[Stillraining]

Doing in bulk speeds things up too...ATTACH]360186[/ATTACH]

You'v got a LOT of money!

 

[schematix]

You'v got a LOT of money!

Not anymore! I have a lot of stainless!

 

[gotbags-10]

Wow schematix thanks for the info. Will give it a whirl. One other question. How would you go about dry hopping in the keg using that method? Or would you just dry hop in primary instead?

 

[schematix]

Wow schematix thanks for the info. Will give it a whirl. One other question. How would you go about dry hopping in the keg using that method? Or would you just dry hop in primary instead?

Always dry hop in primary as fermentation is winding down so the yeast can scrub at least some of the O2 you introduced...

 

[oldstyle69]

how old are your hops? has this been asked yet? what type of hops? pellet? dried whole hops? ive had one IPA i made, have the nose fall out completely and it was due to using old ****ty hops.

 

[gotbags-10]

Hops are 2015 citra pellets from Farmhouse. Bought 5 lbs

 

[TheHairyHop]

Hops are 2015 citra pellets from Farmhouse. Bought 5 lbs

how do you store them once you crack the bag?

 

[gotbags-10]

Vac sealed

 

[TheHairyHop]

Vac sealed

Ah ok. Diminishing flavor can be a symptom of oxidation. so you may be introducing a bunch of oxygen in either a hot or cold side process, which could then rob you of your kettle or dry hop flavors, respectively. Vacuum sealing is definitely a good way to go about storing the hops. I presume you then stash them in the freezer?

 

[squaremile]

I'll double up on two suggestions that are definitely the problems. 1. The sulfate/chloride ratio is backwards and that's going to make a major difference. 2. Dry hop loose in primary. MINIMAL oxygen is picked up doing that and the benefits are enormous. Do those two things and make sure your hops actually smell good in the bag and you are good to go, guaranteed.

 

[anicola]

Here' s my methid for making excellent IPA's in 5.5 gal batch
1. Water. Start with RO and add CaCl and Gypsum to taste. 1tsp CaCl in mash and 1tsp Gypsum in boil is fine fir my tastes.
2. Depending on grist, acidify mash with Lactic Acid amt calc'd using Martins' spreadsheet
3. Add only a bittering charge of hops to boil. I've found that flavor, aroma, flameout and dry hop in fermentor addition are just a waste of good hops. 1or 2 oz in the keg will overpower any of those additions.
4. Minimize O2 contact. I ferment out in 6 gal better bottle at lower end of yeast temp range then chill fermentor in fridge for couple if days making sure to flush with CO2 several times as the air in the head space contracts.
5. Pressure transfer with CO2 to a purged corny keg with the siphon rig that More Beer sells and force carb in keezer for a week.
6. Take a second keg and put a couple of s 3" stainless tea balls with an oz of say Columbus and Simcoe in each and purge with CO2. Then do a out port to out port transfer under CO2 pressure from the first to the second keg. Let second jeg chill in keezer for a day or so and you've got a super hop bomb IPA.

 

[squaremile]

3. Add only a bittering charge of hops to boil. I've found that flavor, aroma, flameout and dry hop in fermentor addition are just a waste of good hops. 1or 2 oz in the keg will overpower any of those additions.

Wait... Are you saying you ONLY do a bitter addition at the start of boil, and nothing else?

 

[Nomofett]

I do that, well I did, but then I heard a podcast about how complex hops are and how adding them in the boil may do more than just bittering. So now I add some at 10 or 15 minutes. But not many at all and still reluctantly

 

[anicola]

Wait... Are you saying you ONLY do a bitter addition at the start of boil, and nothing else?

For IPA's that I will dry hop in the keg, yes. 1to 3 oz of hop pellets in the keg will give a huge hop punch and completely overwhelms any flavor or aroma additions so I realized those boil additions were just a waste of hops. Now if I am makin say a Pale Ale which wont be dry hopped then yes I'll do 10 min or flameout additions