So Frustrated, Bottles Fail to Carb (again)

[maltoftheearth]

My second straight bottling attempt is a failure. The first, a wheat beer, was my fault for stupidly putting the beer in the fridge before it had carbed. I have tried to rehabilitate it since that experience with a little luck but it varies from bottle to bottle.

Much more frustrating is a Scottish Ale I brewed on Sept 18th and bottled in the first week of October. I used about 6oz of corn sugar to a cup and a half of water. It has been sitting in my home for a month and it is still flat as can be (tried one today.) The flavor is great but there is absolutely zero carbonation.

The temperature in my home varies between 62 at night and 68 (at least) during the day. This yeast fermented within thin range, why shouldn't it carb in this range?

A week ago I tipped all the Scottish Ale bottles upside down and still no difference.

I was really hoping to have these beers ready for consumption at Thanksgiving. Now I have to wait and see if they will EVER carbonate. I also have two beers in carboys waiting to be bottled but am worried about proceeding since they might end up as flat as the others. Maybe I can finish one of my kegs in the next week and transfer to that. Argh!

 

[maltoftheearth]

Nevermind, I see where Revvy has said that 70 degrees is the temp to hit for carbonation. I have purchased a second chest freezer and all the parts for a dual temperature control unit so I might have a constant 70 degrees sometime in the near future. Darn sensor unit was purchased on eBay and shipped from China so it could be a while ...

 

[day_trippr]

Yeah, well regardless of the advise you're keying on, there's something else going on, because 6 weeks exposed to "at least 68 degrees" should have produced more than "zero carbonation"...

Cheers!

 

[beerman0001]

So what temp where you at? Above 60 you would have had something.

 

[Walker]

yup. You don't need to have 70*F. You just need a temp that the yeast will be happy at, and mid 60's is fine. After 4 weeks it should have definitely had SOME amount of carbonation.

Something seems odd....

 

[limulus]

Can you provide some detail about your process from kettle to fermenter to bottling? Maybe someone will see something. How long was this beer in fermentation? Did it get good aeration when it went into the fermenter? I wonder if the yeast just fell out of suspension. What kind of fermentation vessel/s did you use? Is it possible that something in the bottles like Starsan could kill off the yeast?

 

[Walker]

I don't think we need to go all the way back to the kettle here.

I can promise you that the yeast didn't fall out. You would have to age the stuff for a long long long time for that to happen.

Id be more inclined to suspect something like his capper not making a good seal or something.

 

[MikeDercole]

How long does it take from the time you add primer to getting bottle capped. You'd be surprised how fast hungry yeast can tear through a little sugar. If you don't cap them right away, all that co2 will escape. I have had problems in the past where I was taking my sweet time and results were less than great. Now I prime immediately before I start filling bottles and have a helper sealing them as they are filled. I haven't had a flat beer since.
As for temp, I keep it the same as fermentation, let them go for a week and then put them in the fridge for another 1-2 weeks at least.

 

[Sixpak]

I gotta say it seems more like something is amiss elsewhere besides the temps. Been bottling and storing in my basement which averages low 60's and have no issues whatsoever with carbonation. I'm busting them out and drinking after two weeks. Three is even better.

 

[audger]

How long does it take from the time you add primer to getting bottle capped. You'd be surprised how fast hungry yeast can tear through a little sugar. If you don't cap them right away, all that co2 will escape.

its impossible that the yeast ate all the sugar in the time that it takes to cap even a few hundred bottles. unless you are letting the bottles sit overnight uncapped, or longer, this is not the problem.

sounds like dead yeast or poorly sealing caps. those are the only two major things that would cause zero carbonation (aside from obvious errors like forgetting to add priming sugar).

 

[limulus]

I think Walker is probably looking in the right direction. Totally flat bottles seems to point to a faulty capper. I had a situation about 15yrs ago that was similar, but it was more related to the yeast falling out. That is why I asked in my previous message. Try putting balloons over some of the bottles after they are filled and capped. If they inflate, you'll know.

 

[beeraroundtown]

maybe they sold you lactose instead of corn sugar.

 

[camiller]

You not doing anything extraordinary like filtering with a .5 micron filter before bottling or anything like that are you?

twist off bottles?

really old capper that might not be crimping well?

Like limulus said, give us a detailed description of your process from fermentor to capping.

 

[Slipgate]

For sure it is the caps. Long, long ago when I was bottling, I boiled my caps and capped them right from the hot water. The water helped the seal and I never had a bottle fail to fully carb.

 

[camiller]

For sure it is the caps. Long, long ago when I was bottling, I boiled my caps and capped them right from the hot water. The water helped the seal and I never had a bottle fail to fully carb.

And I have never boiled my caps and also have never had a bottle fail to carb (with one exception, but that was a 14.4 ABV beer)

 

[mobilecabinworks]

I'm with beeraroundtown in asking if you are acutally using corn sugar. Give it a taste. Maltodextrin doesn't really taste like much and will not really dissolve on your tongue or in hot water very well. Corn sugar should obviously be sweet, but it dissolves immediiately in hot water. Some one at the LHBS might have screwed up!

 

[dbl_barrel]

I have had the same problem. For whatever reason my bottles didn't carbonate. My solution, on a batch that had already been bottled, was to re-hydrate dry yeast (Safale 05) in sterile water and use an eyedropper to add a few drops to each bottle. It was a pain to uncap and recap each bottle but 2 weeks later I had good carbonation.

Now when bottling I add a half-package of re-hydrated yeast to the bottling bucket along with the priming sugar. Rack the beer on top of those two to properly distribute throughout. I haven't had any problems since.

 

[maltoftheearth]

Hi again. These were both BIAB beers that fermented well, the OF and FG were spot on and the fermentation on both was explosive. Both tasted great on bottling day but more sour now due to exposure to oxygen (little CO2 in the bottles.)

I have bottled before without issues, you may be right about the corn sugar although I only need to swirl it once in boiling water for the water to be clear. I don't wait long to bottle once I have transferred to my bucket.

The suggestion here regarding yeast health may be critical. I pitch a correct amount of yeast but I don't have a fancy aerator. Then again, I have made some tasty beers without an aerator. In fact, some of my tastiest beers are IPA's and IIPA's that were made without an aerator.

So, that doesn't really help explain further.

DBL Barrel -- didn't you find that your beer has significantly degraded in taste after sitting without CO2 for so long?

 

[dbl_barrel]

Malt: the batch that I dosed with an eye dropper sat for about 4 weeks without CO2. After adding the drops of yeast they were good to go in another 3 weeks. I didn't detect any flavor issues. My theory about why I wasn't getting any carbonation in the bottle was that when I racked to the bottling bucket I was extra careful not to siphon any of the trub into the bottling bucket and thereby didn't transfer enough viable yeast cells from the fermenter to the bottling bucket to effectuate bottle carbonation.

So I added a step to my bottling procedure which was to add fresh yeast to the bottling bucket. You could probably transfer some trub into the bottling bucket to get the same result. I will also mention that during the winter I move newly bottled beer into a heated area of the house (72F) for a couple of weeks to help accelerate carbonation.

 

[Pappers_]

Its so hard to diagnose at a distance. I wouldn't give up on the temperature issue, everyone is right that the yeast should be working at those temperatures, but they might be tired and slow, sluggish. Try this with few bottles - fill a smallish juice bottle with hot tap water, put it in a cooler with a few bottles and a thermometer. See if you can get the temperature into the 70s (80s are fine, keep it below 90) and let it sit a week. Swap the bottle out every couple of days. Test the carbonation.

Caveat: I've never done this, because I've never had bottles not carbonate. But it is similar to a method I use when making yogurt to provide a warm temperature for the yogurt to ferment.