Smack Pack

[Tonypr24]

Do I need to make a yeast starter with a smack pack or is it not necessary?

 

[riverfrontbrewer]

What type and quantity of beer are you making? If you're doing a five gallon batch of anything, I'd say you don't need a starter, but if its a ten gallon batch of a bigger beer you may want too. Even if you don't make one for a bigger batch you'll prob be fine....but may have a longer lag time than normal.

 

[babalu87]

What type and quantity of beer are you making? If you're doing a five gallon batch of anything, I'd say you don't need a starter, but if its a ten gallon batch of a bigger beer you may want too. Even if you don't make one for a bigger batch you'll prob be fine....but may have a longer lag time than normal.

This isnt very good advice.

Yes you can make beer without making a starter but it wont be at its best.

A FRESH smack pack and you can get away with making an ale to around 1.045 or so OG but after that all bets are off.
What if he is making a lager?

Check out Mr Malty for some pitching rates.

Short answer, make a starter no matter what...........your beer will thank you.

 

[SOB]

There are 2 types of smack packs. The smaller ones (1.75oz called Propagator packs) are intended to be used in a starter. The larger size (4.25oz called Activator packs) do not necessarily need a starter but as Durango stated a bigger beer may require one.

 

[Tonypr24]

I'm making a 5gl batch Cream Ale at 1.040 SG. I have an activator smack pack. Also the recipe calls for a single infusion at 150f for 60min and 170f for 10 mins. Can I skip the 170f for 10min and just do a normal sparge with 170F water?

 

[babalu87]

I'm making a 5gl batch Cream Ale at 1.040 SG. I have an activator smack pack. Also the recipe calls for a single infusion at 150f for 60min and 170f for 10 mins. Can I skip the 170f for 10min and just do a normal sparge with 170F water?

Yes you can skip the 170 mash out

What is the date on the smack pack?

 

[DarkSide]

I'm with babalu on this one. I use the activator packs and always make a starter. It's better to have more yeast cells then not enough.

As for the 10 minutes at 170 degrees. The higher temp water is meant to stop enzyme activity and the converting of starch to sugar. I usually just sparge with 170 water. Though I am thinking of adding the 170 water after removing the first runnings. Then letting it sit for 5 or 10 minutes before continuing with the sparge.

Anyone else have any suggestions on that one??

 

[babalu87]

I'm with babalu on this one. I use the activator packs and always make a starter. It's better to have more yeast cells then not enough.

As this thread grows you wont be the only one

As for the 10 minutes at 170 degrees. The higher temp water is meant to stop enzyme activity and the converting of starch to sugar. I usually just sparge with 170 water. Though I am thinking of adding the 170 water after removing the first runnings. Then letting it sit for 5 or 10 minutes before continuing with the sparge.

Anyone else have any suggestions on that one??

I add water that is around 200 degrees after the first runnings to bring the mash to 168 or so.
The only time I use 170 degree water is to mash in. After that its something close to boiling depending on how much I need to add in.
Your right , the rest at 168-170 is to stop enzyme activity.

 

[joety]

As this thread grows you wont be the only one



I add water that is around 200 degrees after the first runnings to bring the mash to 168 or so.
The only time I use 170 degree water is to mash in. After that its something close to boiling depending on how much I need to add in.
Your right , the rest at 168-170 is to stop enzyme activity.

I always make a starter, big, small, lager, ale, all five gallon batches. For lagers and bigger beers I up it to 3 litres from 1.

I also started adding 200 degree water after the first runnings about three batches ago and noticed an increase in efficiency. Not sure why as that is not the theoretical reason for doing it, but I have an extra pot and it reduces the amount of water I need to put in my HLT as well.

 

[riverfrontbrewer]

notwithstanding some peoples advocation of overpitching, by reading on the wyeast website, it almost seems as if a starter may not be necessary. smartass emoticon here!

http://www.wyeastlab.com/hb_productdetail.cfm?ProductID=16

I do agree with the Mr Malty website recomendation as well.

 

[babalu87]

notwithstanding some peoples advocation of overpitching, by reading on the wyeast website, it almost seems as if a starter may not be necessary. smartass emoticon here!

http://www.wyeastlab.com/hb_productdetail.cfm?ProductID=16

I do agree with the Mr Malty website recomendation as well.

Overpitching?

If you agree with the Mr Malty recomendation then you cant really agree with Wyeast.

Best case scenario (smack pack is a few days old) you need a 2.5 liter starter with one smack pack for a 1.060 ale

Make that same ale a lager and you need TWO smack packs and almost 5 liters of starter wort.

Do you have any idea how much yeast is actually required to overpitch?

Insert smartass emoticon here

 

[riverfrontbrewer]

Your right, I should not have said overpitch, I should have said "ones ability to overthink a hobby thats supposed to be fun". Yeast are way more resilliant than most people give them credit.....I just let them do their job, without worrying to much about it.

Edit to add: I am not saying babalu is overthinking this, I am saying many people do, which is fine for them, I just choose not too.

 

[TheAleMaster]

FWIW, I've never had a 5 gallon batch take longer than 24 hours to start fermentation using solely an Activator smack pack. My last couple batches were within 8 hours. Just my personal experience...

 

[kryolla]

Your right, I should not have said overpitch, I should have said "ones ability to overthink a hobby thats supposed to be fun". Yeast are way more resilliant than most people give them credit.....I just let them do their job, without worrying to much about it.

Edit to add: I am not saying babalu is overthinking this, I am saying many people do, which is fine for them, I just choose not too.

its not overthinking its making better beer. Do you know what happens when you underpitch or what happens to the yeast after so many generation from splitting because you underpitch. Granted Wyeast activator pack is suppose to be 100 billion cells which will deliver slightly less than 6 million cells per milliliter in a 5 gallon batch of beer which is on the low end for a average gravity beer but how do know all those cells are viable and sure a lot of people just pitch the smack pack and produces beer but why settle for average when there is room to grow. Why brew beer when you can just go buy it, its not cheaper brewing beer with the same quality? It might just be me though

 

[riverfrontbrewer]

You say tomayto I say tamahto....you don't know how my beer taste, so stop assuming.

 

[springer]

You say tomayto I say tamahto....you don't know how my beer taste, so stop assuming.

No nobody knows how your beer tastes . That being said do you know how your beer tastes when you use a starter?

When I started I used kits that had DME, hops and the yeast sometimes liquid other times dry. I followed the directions and made some very fine beers .

When I really started to fine tune the process the first thing I did with liquid yeast was to make a starter reason being I had no idea how viable the yeast was as improper storage or transporting can do a number on liquid not so much to dry, beers got better. Now I have fermentation cabinets, plate stirrers, all kinds of stuff and I will honestly say the beer has improved greatly with each step. YMMV but at least try it before dismissing it

 

[riverfrontbrewer]

Springer-

I do make starters when they are necessary, so definitely not dismissing the practice, just don't think it's always needed.

 

[ChshreCat]

You don't HAVE to make a starter, but you really should.

I haven't bothered with a starter and have pitched activator packs into worts up to 1.070... but I know I should have.

If you don't use a starter, make sure you aerate REALLY well though. The starter is strictly for getting the yeast to multiply (and a little bit just to make sure the yeast are viable at all) so when you don't use a starter, you are performing that stage of the yeast life cycle completely in your wort. Yeast need lots of O2 to multiply.

 

[springer]

Springer-

I do make starters when they are necessary, so definitely not dismissing the practice, just don't think it's always needed.

Ok didn't get that from the thread .. maybe I didn't have my coffee yet

There are some styles that I underpitch intentionally . Like my Hefe I do 10 gallons and use one smack pack and a small starter .

 

[SOB]

FWIW, I've never had a 5 gallon batch take longer than 24 hours to start fermentation using solely an Activator smack pack. My last couple batches were within 8 hours. Just my personal experience...

That doesn't necessarily mean you're pitching the correct amount of yeast.

I'm staying out of the "always make a starter" debate as it usually doesnt get anywhere...

 

[legaleagle]

I just returned to brewing after being away from it for 5 years. I just brewed this past weekend and have 1 lager and 1 ale fermenting now (middle of the road beers - nothing heavy or light). Here's my comparision:

Before, from detailed notes I kept, this was my general procedure: I used the smaller Wyeast starter packs (that's all they had back then) or White Labs tubes and always made a starter. I did middle of the road lagers and ales (no high gravity stuff). I just agitated the carboy to get it aerated (no airstones or anything like that). I would have yeast activity (airlock liquid movement, yeast dust on sides of fermentor, etc) within 6-8 hours and very noticeable to full blown activity within 10-12 hours. Ale fermentations would wane after 3-4 days, lagers after 4-5 days. If I let the finished beer sit on the yeast cake 2-3 weeks after fermentation ended (hydrometer confirmed) before kegging, the beer tasted better; if I kegged it right after fermentation ended and waited same amount of time, the beer tended to not be as good.

This past week, I used the larger Wyeast Activator pack for the first time. Did not make a starter as advertised. I did not read the date when I bought them (too excited to care) but they sat in my fridge door for 2 weeks (the one my kid opens all the time and sometimes shuts...when she remembers). I popped them both when I began heating my mash water. By pitching time 5 hours later, they were all blowed up and so I dumped them in (60 degree wort) and agitated the carboys just like I done before. This was about 6:00 pm. At 1:00 am, the liquid in the airlocks on both had moved slightly (due to pressure) and a light dusting of yeast was visible on the sides of the fermentor. Next morning (8:00 am), low level fermentation was ocurring in both (airlock bubbling slowly, wort cloudy w/yeast moving slowly around, thin cap forming). By afternoon, full blown fermentation, cap, farting yeast smells, etc on both. Ambient air in the garage was 60-65 degrees. As of today, the ale looks about done and starting to clear with only an occaisional bubble; lager visibly winding down and looking like the diacytal rest will be coming soon. Both will sit on the yeast cake 2-3 weeks before I rack.

By my math the difference in lag time was just a few hours. Will that transfer to the finish flavor? Possibly. But my past experience tells me that 2-3 weeks on the yeast cake has a far more noticeable impact on flavor, curing or minimizing many a flavor problem. So, that's where I will concentrate my efforts and not worry too about the starter and a few hours difference in the lag time.