Slight acidic aftertaste on all homebrews

[latProd]

Maybe, but not necessarily. All depends on several factors: how much gets in, when, wort IBU, etc. This is clearly not your problem though, so just responding in the interest of providing information. Good luck with your problem!

Out of curiosity, have you tried adding small amounts of salts (CaCl2, CaSO4) to the glass, thus raising the pH and seeing if the acidic flavor subsides? If it does, and it's all a pH issue, that should be easy to fix with some of the advice you've gotten here.

As in adding them to an actual glass of beer? Nope, never tried it, but interesting idea! How much is " a small amount?" and since I'm going to the shop today I can either pick up some CaCl2 or CaSO4. Which would be best suited for this?

 

[latProd]

i'm sure others can chime in on this better than i can, but it sounds like the darker malts could be driving your (and mine) ph down a bit. i wonder if it would help to steep the darker malts separately from the mash?

Never thought of that, wouldn't it impact the flavor profile?

 

[BigPerm]

Never thought of that, wouldn't it impact the flavor profile?

Low pH will accentuate the acrid character of the dark malts, which may explain some of your flavor notes. I add my dark malts as I start my sparge.

 

[joshesmusica]

it's just making a pale extract, and steeping your specialty grains.

 

[latProd]

Low pH will accentuate the acrid character of the dark malts, which may explain some of your flavor notes. I add my dark malts as I start my sparge.

Really? You add your dark malts that late? I've never heard of that practice before. I plan to do a no-sparge brew next time just for experimental purposes really, would it be an idea to add dark malts late in the mash perhaps?

 

[mabrungard]

The OP's water quality does appear to have the character I expected, relatively low alkalinity and hardness. That should be helpful for pale beer brewing since it reduces (but not eliminate) the need for mash acid addition. If brewing dark beers, some alkalinity may be needed since roast malts provide acids to the mash.

A relatively stable alternative for adding alkalinity to mashing water is baking soda (sodium bicarbonate). While it does add sodium, a brewer can usually add sufficient alkalinity without overdosing the overall wort with sodium since the sparging water doesn't receive baking soda treatment and will ultimately dilute the sodium content. The other alkalinity option is adding lime, but that alternative is not always accurate since lime purity can vary. Creating a solution of limewater (aka: kalkwasser) can be a more accurate way to supply alkalinity.

 

[mabrungard]

Adding roast malts late in the mash can help avoid an overly low mash pH and improve the taste of the roast components. However, that late addition does not keep the kettle wort pH from dropping lower than desirable. The beer can still be tart unless an alkali is added to either the mash (with all the roast malts) or in the kettle (if the late roast method is used).

You can't cheat chemistry.

 

[latProd]

The OP's water quality does appear to have the character I expected, relatively low alkalinity and hardness. That should be helpful for pale beer brewing since it reduces (but not eliminate) the need for mash acid addition. If brewing dark beers, some alkalinity may be needed since roast malts provide acids to the mash.

A relatively stable alternative for adding alkalinity to mashing water is baking soda (sodium bicarbonate). While it does add sodium, a brewer can usually add sufficient alkalinity without overdosing the overall wort with sodium since the sparging water doesn't receive baking soda treatment and will ultimately dilute the sodium content. The other alkalinity option is adding lime, but that alternative is not always accurate since lime purity can vary. Creating a solution of limewater (aka: kalkwasser) can be a more accurate way to supply alkalinity.

Thank you again, this is something i will definately look into, especially since i hardly ever brew pale beers these days. Now to figure out how much to add and when!

 

[joshesmusica]

Adding roast malts late in the mash can help avoid an overly low mash pH and improve the taste of the roast components. However, that late addition does not keep the kettle wort pH from dropping lower than desirable. The beer can still be tart unless an alkali is added to either the mash (with all the roast malts) or in the kettle (if the late roast method is used).

You can't cheat chemistry.

so going back to this thread:
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/showthread.php?t=514482

and if i was doing this recipe:

Ingredients:
------------
Amt Name Type # %/IBU
0.20 kg Munich Malt (15.0 EBC) Grain 1 4.2 %
0.15 kg Chocolate Malt (1200.0 EBC) Grain 2 3.2 %
0.15 kg Chocolate Malt (689.5 EBC) Grain 3 3.2 %
0.10 kg Carafa II (811.6 EBC) Grain 4 2.1 %
0.10 kg Caramel Wheat Malt (120.0 EBC) Grain 5 2.1 %
3.00 kg Pilsner Liquid Extract (3.0 EBC) Extract 6 63.2 %
12.00 g Chinook [13.00 %] - Boil 60.0 min Hop 7 17.7 IBUs
12.00 g Pacific Gem [15.00 %] - Boil 60.0 min Hop 8 20.5 IBUs
15.00 g Chinook [13.00 %] - Boil 10.0 min Hop 9 8.0 IBUs
0.55 kg Sugar, Table (Sucrose) [Boil for 5 min]( Sugar 10 11.6 %
0.50 kg Extra Light Dry Extract [Boil for 1 min] Dry Extract 11 10.5 %
20.00 g Amarillo [9.20 %] - Steep/Whirlpool 25. Hop 12 7.3 IBUs
20.00 g Citra [12.00 %] - Steep/Whirlpool 20.0 Hop 13 8.3 IBUs
2.0 pkg Nottingham (Danstar #-) [23.66 ml] Yeast 14 -
20.00 g Amarillo [9.20 %] - Dry Hop 5.0 Days Hop 15 0.0 IBUs
20.00 g Citra [12.00 %] - Dry Hop 5.0 Days Hop 16 0.0 IBUs


then should i be adding something to the boil? 25L batch. if i should be adding something could you give an approximate estimate of how much?

 

[xvgjvhj]

Are you doing anything to your water or checking your ph?

 

[BigPerm]

Adding roast malts late in the mash can help avoid an overly low mash pH and improve the taste of the roast components. However, that late addition does not keep the kettle wort pH from dropping lower than desirable. The beer can still be tart unless an alkali is added to either the mash (with all the roast malts) or in the kettle (if the late roast method is used).

You can't cheat chemistry.

This. Late additions give all the desired color but leave some of the more acrid components behind due to low residency times. However, I don't have problems with the kettle pH aspect, so I don't approach it from that angle and, as was stated above, is likely not a direct fix for your specific problem but may smooth out the flavor if you are noting acrid/burnt character from the roasted malts.

I think you'll have your answers once you do some pH measurements. Good luck!

 

[bu_gee]

and if i was doing this recipe:

...

if i should be adding something could you give an approximate estimate of how much?

He provides the worksheet on his website for free. You should be able to work it out for yourself.

 

[joshesmusica]

He provides the worksheet on his website for free. You should be able to work it out for yourself.

i tried. there were certain things missing from the water report that wouldn't allow the spreadsheet to do its thing. but from his comments on that thread he said that he assumed it to basically be like RO water.
which does help to know, i suppose, but i know nothing about chemistry, and especially not water chemistry, and therefore have no idea if i should be doing something to it according to which style i would brew.

 

[biggmatt]

Also you could just buy a small bottle of distilled and taste test side by side with tap. Is that the off flavor? Any small hints of it?

 

[jstraight]

I haven't read all posts in this thread but has anyone suggested 5.2 Mash pH Stabilizer? I have used it a couple of times but my water is good on it's own, so I didn't notice any change.
John

 

[latProd]

This. Late additions give all the desired color but leave some of the more acrid components behind due to low residency times. However, I don't have problems with the kettle pH aspect, so I don't approach it from that angle and, as was stated above, is likely not a direct fix for your specific problem but may smooth out the flavor if you are noting acrid/burnt character from the roasted malts.

I think you'll have your answers once you do some pH measurements. Good luck!

Thank you! I'm brewing on sunday and am gonna measure the PH in the mash then, see where I'm at. I'm also gonna try adding the dark malts late on and do a no-sparge mash as well and see where that gets me. Thanks for all the good advice!

 

[PhinneyWoodBrews]

Is your tap water treated with chlorine or chloramine? My early brews were afflicted with a metallic after taste-perhaps what you're calling acidic. I brewed with distilled water for a while, which eliminated this 'homebrew twang'. Now, I treat my local tap water(which is soft) with campden tablets, which dissipates chlorine and chloramine. Cheers

 

[latProd]

Is your tap water treated with chlorine or chloramine? My early brews were afflicted with a metallic after taste-perhaps what you're calling acidic. I brewed with distilled water for a while, which eliminated this 'homebrew twang'. Now, I treat my local tap water(which is soft) with campden tablets, which dissipates chlorine and chloramine. Cheers

I'm pretty sure most water is treated with chlorine, or so I thought?
I thought campden tablets were used for wine and stuff like that. Never heard of it being used in beer, but I'm not that familiar with it. When do you use it, and how much do you use for a 5 gallon batch, for example?

The only version of it I can find in my brewshop is this:

http://www.bryggselv.no/products/potassiumsulfite-vinoferm-campden-100g

 

[mabrungard]

I haven't read all posts in this thread but has anyone suggested 5.2 Mash pH Stabilizer?

I hate admitting this, but 5.2 would actually help avoid an extreme pH drop with respect to the OP's problem. But so would baking soda, and baking soda is probably a LOT less expensive.

 

[latProd]

I hate admitting this, but 5.2 would actually help avoid an extreme pH drop with respect to the OP's problem. But so would baking soda, and baking soda is probably a LOT less expensive.

So I can simply put a teaspoon (or whatever amount) of baking soda in the mash ? It's that simple?

 

[mabrungard]

So I can simply put a teaspoon (or whatever amount) of baking soda in the mash ? It's that simple?

I recommend that all mineral and acid additions be added to the mashing water first, since that allows you to assure that they are fully dissolved and distributed. But yes, you would just be adding a dose of baking soda to the mashing water to avoid an excessive pH drop. Of course, you do have to figure out how much is the correct amount. A tool like Bru'n Water provides guidance.

 

[PhinneyWoodBrews]

I'm pretty sure most water is treated with chlorine, or so I thought?
I thought campden tablets were used for wine and stuff like that. Never heard of it being used in beer, but I'm not that familiar with it. When do you use it, and how much do you use for a 5 gallon batch, for example?

The only version of it I can find in my brewshop is this:

http://www.bryggselv.no/products/potassiumsulfite-vinoferm-campden-100g

Here's a link explaining the use of campden to remove chlorinehttp://www.morebeer.com/articles/removing_chloramines_from_water
One tablet treats about 20 gallons of water. I crush the tablets and weigh out the amount I need with a digital scale capable of weighing sub gram amounts. Cheers.

 

[cyanmonkey]

Are you doing anything to your water or checking your ph?

View attachment ImageUploadedByHome Brew1428767412.778794.jpgView attachment ImageUploadedByHome Brew1428767425.366554.jpg

 

[joshesmusica]

I recommend that all mineral and acid additions be added to the mashing water first, since that allows you to assure that they are fully dissolved and distributed. But yes, you would just be adding a dose of baking soda to the mashing water to avoid an excessive pH drop. Of course, you do have to figure out how much is the correct amount. A tool like Bru'n Water provides guidance.

You said my water was basically RO water, so when using the Bru'n Water spreadsheet, do you have a way to type in everything to equal RO water? I can't use the info my water report has on it, because it's not complete. But it is also in Norway. I would gladly add some baking soda to my water, if only I knew how much to add.

 

[mabrungard]

In Bru'n Water, all you have to do is select RO water as your dilution water and set the dilution to 100%. In the supporter's version, you also have to ability to do the same trick for the sparing water, but that feature isn't in the free version.

Be aware that RO water quality does vary from machine to machine, but should generally be similar.

 

[latProd]

Thanks for all the good advice, it'll be exciting to see how my next batch turns out using the information I got here.

 

[joshesmusica]

In Bru'n Water, all you have to do is select RO water as your dilution water and set the dilution to 100%. In the supporter's version, you also have to ability to do the same trick for the sparing water, but that feature isn't in the free version.

Be aware that RO water quality does vary from machine to machine, but should generally be similar.

yes thanks from norway!

 

[latProd]

A tiny update on this thread, for anyone who is interested: I did some experiments, one of them being adding a flat teaspoon of baking soda, and miraculously enough that did it. I can't taste any apparent off flavors in my last Black Ipa.
So I guess that is pretty good evidence that the water needed a little ph bump to avoid the aciditiy. Now it's just a smooth, bitter and mineraly aftertaste, just how I like it!
Thanks to everyone contributing in this thread!

 

[cyanmonkey]

Cheers!