Single Tier, 3 Pump, BCS-462, Automated Rig

[allclene]

So I took my 10-tip burner last night and mocked up a manifold to test for flame control. I have 1/2" hose coming out of the house feeding my manifold (soon to be on my rig). That goes through and in-line regulator (Maxitrol 325-3) and then onto the burner. With the ball valve after the regulator I got slightly better control than without it, but the regulator didn't add as much control as I thought. I could not get the flame very low without it turning pretty yellow (poor burn). I'm thinking what I might do is take out some tips (maybe down to 6?) and plug the holes with a simple 1/4"-20 bolt. You guys thoughts?

Do a search on this forum for burner problems. There's a thread that shows issues like this and someone refered them to a website that explains to you how to solve most of the problems involved in setting up your burners. It's very informative and will most likely solve your issue.

 

[allclene]

Sorry couldn't remember thread did a check it is "23 jet burner problems" glance through that thread it'll help you out. Lots of good info on seting burner right.

 

[gifty74]

Yes, I've been searching the forums for quite some time on how to set up these wok-style burners on natural gas. I've read through that thread, and there is good info, but it's mostly people having issues with the 32 or 23 tip burners, plugging jets, etc. I have a 10 tip which I thought was easier to control, and sufficient for 5 and 10 gal batches. The only thing I do not have hooked up yet is my Honeywell 8200 standing pilot with safety shutoff valve. That is supposed to have some pretty good control by being able to adjust the built-in regulator. I was trying the in-line regulator (at a 2psi set pressure, non adjustable) thinking it would give me more control than just running the NG line straight to the burner uninhibited. It really didn't do that. I read on other threads that even on the burner for the boil kettle, where you want a lot of heat to get to boil, and then back down the flame, you want to use a set in-line regulator with a ball valve after to fine tune the flame. My Honeywell should do a good job of keeping a nice low flame on my direct fired MT.

 

[allclene]

If you are using natural gas instead of propane, you have to change the orifice to natural gas type. Also if you are using gas from your house there is no need for a regulator use the line straight in. It is already regulated to a low psi. The other question will be if you have a low presure or high presure burner. If it is high presure, it won't work on house gas line. Psi not high enough from gas meter. So you might want to go to propane so you can have more control over it. Hope that helps you.

 

[brewman !]

Beautiful rig !

I'm trying to figure out the flow path for all situations.

When you are sanitizing the chiller by pumping boiling wort through it, how do you get the wort back into the brew kettle ?

I understand that the pump under that kettle will get the wort into the manifold and then into the chiller, but how does it get from the chiller outlet back into the kettle ?

Thanks

 

[JonW]

Beautiful rig !

I'm trying to figure out the flow path for all situations.

When you are sanitizing the chiller by pumping boiling wort through it, how do you get the wort back into the brew kettle ?

I understand that the pump under that kettle will get the wort into the manifold and then into the chiller, but how does it get from the chiller outlet back into the kettle ?

Thanks

Go back to page 1 and look at the first pic. It is an updated one that is a little different from some of the others on that page. It shows a return loop coming off the chiller on the right and coming back and teeing to the kettle return. When the valve to the left of the BK pump is closed and the one to the right is open, it forces the flow to the chiller and back to the return.

Here's a close up of the return loop:

 

[brewman !]

Go back to page 1 and look at the first pic. It is an updated one that is a little different from some of the others on that page. It shows a return loop coming off the chiller on the right and coming back and teeing to the kettle return. When the valve to the left of the BK pump is closed and the one to the right is open, it forces the flow to the chiller and back to the return.

Thanks ! That inlet (the loop back inlet) is there in the first picture but not in any of the rest. I missed it in that picture. That is a very neat and tidy way of doing it.

Do your QCs seal when they aren't connected ? If not, what closes that connector when the chiller loop back isn't connected into the system ? Do you have a cap for it or is there a valve in there somewhere ?

 

[JonW]

Thanks ! That inlet (the loop back inlet) is there in the first picture but not in any of the rest. I missed it in that picture. That is a very neat and tidy way of doing it.

Do your QCs seal when they aren't connected ? If not, what closes that connector when the chiller loop back isn't connected into the system ? Do you have a cap for it or is there a valve in there somewhere ?

No the QD's don't seal when disconnected. Any of the QD's that have that feature usually end up getting plugged up.

There are no caps to the system. When setting up for a brew day, all hoses are connected to the system. I don't disconnect any hose during the brew day. The only exception to that is I disconnect the BK return line (vertical one) and drop it into my fermenter (Sanke keg on rollers) when chilling.

 

[brewman !]

No the QD's don't seal when disconnected. Any of the QD's that have that feature usually end up getting plugged up.

I agree !

There are no caps to the system. When setting up for a brew day, all hoses are connected to the system. I don't disconnect any hose during the brew day. The only exception to that is I disconnect the BK return line (vertical one) and drop it into my fermenter (Sanke keg on rollers) when chilling.

OK, that makes sense. And its a nice way to do it.

Sorry if you have explained this somewhere else.

I really appreciate the time you've put into this thread. Kudos.

 

[brewman !]

2 more questions if you don't mind.

#1, theoretical question. Do the pumps block flow if they aren't running ? If you were (not saying that you want to) pumping hot water from the HLT to the cooler, does it seep past the MLT pump if it isn't running ? If you had the MLT outlet valve open, would it push water into the mash through the pump or would the pump stop it ?

#2, I love the way you mounted all the controls stuff under the aluminum checkerplate. However, what happens if something stops working while you are brewing ? Can you lift the checkerplate up to see what is going on or do you need to remove the kettles and flip the stand upside down to get at things ?

#3, if you had to do it again, would you change anything ? Do you ever worry about kicking a pump and breaking a pump head ?

Thanks in advance !

 

[JonW]

Sorry, you said 2 questions, but you listed 3 - you're now over your limit!

#1, theoretical question. Do the pumps block flow if they aren't running ? If you were (not saying that you want to) pumping hot water from the HLT to the cooler, does it seep past the MLT pump if it isn't running ? If you had the MLT outlet valve open, would it push water into the mash through the pump or would the pump stop it ?

The pumps do not block flow. Don't know what you mean by the cooler... Say I wanted to pump from the HLT to the BK? Yes I can do this but I would manually close the input and output valves on the MLT kettle so that the liquid would flow through the header and not go to the HLT.

#2, I love the way you mounted all the controls stuff under the aluminum checkerplate. However, what happens if something stops working while you are brewing ? Can you lift the checkerplate up to see what is going on or do you need to remove the kettles and flip the stand upside down to get at things ?

There is room to reach underneath if needed. I once had a solenoid coil fry during a brew day on the BK gas valve. I reached under and unplugged one from one of the other gas valves, plugged it into the BK gas port and mounted it to the BK valve. Other than that, I've never had an issue. Worst case, I figure I'll just slide a kettle to a different burner location if something gets messed up. My BCS is currently located in a panel on the wall, so I can always check and test things there also. At some point, I'm going to move the BCS to a mount under the stand though.

#3, if you had to do it again, would you change anything ? Do you ever worry about kicking a pump and breaking a pump head ?

All 3 of my heads are SS now, so no, I don't worry about that at all. I have changed a few things since the initial design, like adding the tippy dump, electronic ignition, SS QD's and moving the gas rail to the front. Other than that, the only things I've thought about changing would be to have an all SS stand so that there are no paint/powder coat issues and I also like how quiet the BG14 burners are. However, I do like the smaller footprint of the wok burners and they are not as difficult to get dialed in like the BG14 ones are, so I haven't gone there.

 

[brewman !]

Sorry, you said 2 questions, but you listed 3 - you're now over your limit!

I owe you one ! Thanks for the answers.

I really appreciate your comment on making the stand from SS. I bought the SS tubing for my stand last week and I fussed over spending the extra $$$ on it for quite a while. Reading what you wrote makes me glad I did.

I guess I should upgrade to SS pump heads as well.

 

[Lindberg_Brewing]

I love your setup and am planning on building a stand similar to yours, what gauge 2" square tubing did you use?

 

[JonW]

I love your setup and am planning on building a stand similar to yours, what gauge 2" square tubing did you use?

It is 3/32".

 

[brewman !]

I love how clean and simple the manifold on your brew rig is. But I'm worried about getting it clean after brewing and sterilizing it prior to the next brew.

The November issue of BYO has an interesting article about where bacteria can hide in a brewing system and what it takes to get it sterilized. Threaded fittings and ball valves are the main culprits to hiding bacteria and getting them sterilized involves 15 minutes at 85F or heating with dry heat in an oven.

What has your experience been with cleaning your system ? Have you ever felt the need to take the valves apart and clean them ?

 

[Maltose]

I love how clean and simple the manifold on your brew rig is. But I'm worried about getting it clean after brewing and sterilizing it prior to the next brew.

The November issue of BYO has an interesting article about where bacteria can hide in a brewing system and what it takes to get it sterilized. Threaded fittings and ball valves are the main culprits to hiding bacteria and getting them sterilized involves 15 minutes at 85F or heating with dry heat in an oven.

What has your experience been with cleaning your system ? Have you ever felt the need to take the valves apart and clean them ?

Wort gets boiled on the hot side.

 

[brewman !]

Wort gets boiled on the hot side.

I agree. But does pumping boiling wort through that manifold get every nook and cranny sterilized ? I am particularly concerned about the fluid that might build up behind the seals of the ball valves.

What if some of that germ infested fluid seeped out from behind the valve seals during pump out ? Or what if you adjusted the valve during pump out to get a cooler wort temp and a bit of fluid that was previously hidden behind the seals seeped out into the wort ? It wouldn't take much to infect wort.

Another potential source of contaminants is scratches in the pump head, but they are more likely to get exposed to cleaning solutions and be sterilized by boiling wort.

 

[limulus]

It really is a work of art. All you need now is some French guy yelling "no flash photography!" at the tourists

 

[JonW]

Wort gets boiled on the hot side.

Agreed!

I agree. But does pumping boiling wort through that manifold get every nook and cranny sterilized ? I am particularly concerned about the fluid that might build up behind the seals of the ball valves.

I don't pump boiling wort through the whole manifold, only the BK return and chiller loop. Wort also doesn't really build up behind the ball valves.

At the end of a brew day, I progressively open each ball valve and flush the lines out with a garden hose attached. Running high pressure water through it does a pretty good job at flushing it. I also leave all valves open when I disconnect the rig so they can dry out. On the next brew day, I just attach the hoses and go. After about 3 or 4 brew days, I run PBW through the whole system.

What if some of that germ infested fluid seeped out from behind the valve seals during pump out ? Or what if you adjusted the valve during pump out to get a cooler wort temp and a bit of fluid that was previously hidden behind the seals seeped out into the wort ? It wouldn't take much to infect wort.

The last part of the boil will sterilize the pump, kettle return and chiller loop. When running into the fermenter, all plumbing will have been sterilized by the boiling wort. Even if there was some small bit of wort hiding behind the ball when I adjust it, it will already have been heated to 212'ish for several minutes (surface temps of the ball valves are very high).

Another potential source of contaminants is scratches in the pump head, but they are more likely to get exposed to cleaning solutions and be sterilized by boiling wort.

You're really getting too paranoid about these germ issues! Good sanitation and running the boiling wort through any of your end-process equipment will result in a germ free wort.

In addition, if you pitch proper quantities of yeast and have proper temperatures, you will get fermentation starting within 24 hours. Once you start to get alcohol present, it makes it very diffficult for any germs to multiply and take hold.

 

[allclene]

You're really getting too paranoid about these germ issues! Good sanitation and running the boiling wort through any of your end-process equipment will result in a germ free wort.

I agree with you. I am building a simular rig to yours and i plan on running a cleaning cycle through it of boiling water to clean out and sterilize after cooking. Then rinse with clean water and dry out with valves open. That should be plenty to keep germs out. I feel he is a little germaphobic and overboard with his concerns.

 

[trekbiker1500]

forgive my ignorance, but does that cool software you're running come with the BCS?

 

[JonW]

forgive my ignorance, but does that cool software you're running come with the BCS?

My interface is a customized web page that I use for a touch screen. If you know your way around a computer and HTML/Javascript, you can download my files and do a custom version of your own.

Info on the interface and links to the files are in my signature.

 

[trekbiker1500]

If you know your way around a computer and HTML/Javascript, you can download my files and do a custom version of your own.

Info on the interface and links to the files are in my signature.

And another channel in the hobby opens up . I am not skilled but I can learn...

thank you

 

[clawler]

Here's my new single tier Brutus style build. I've used the BCS-462 controller for the pumps/valves/temp probes. The BCS is mounted to the garage wall and is also used to control the temp for my serving fridges (2 kegerators) and my fermentor fridge (3rd kegerator). There are 3 CAT-5 data jacks on the back of the rig that are plugged into the BCS on the wall. One CAT-5 for the temp probes, one for the gas valves and pumps, and one for the liquid SS ball valves. Check out the next post for a liquid flow diagram.

Burners are natural gas. I ran a dedicated 3/4" gas line in my garage and have a 1/2" ID gas line with QD that the stand attaches to.

The finish on the stand is a high temp powder coating. I was running it for a while with no finish, but it starts to rust pretty quick. I've only fired it up once now that the coating is on it, but it seems like it should last pretty good. The powder coat is rated for 1200 degrees.

Yeah, I know, 3 pumps seems like overkill, but with pumps now available for $100, it really just simplified the setup when using the electronic ball valves. It also lets me setup for doing back-to-back brew sessions where I can be mashing brew #2 while I'm still finishing up brew #1 in the BK. I like to do continuous recirculation on both the HLT & MLT, so this handles that nicely as well.

Updates done since original posting:
- changed to SS QD's (Morebeer ones w/ Brewers Hardware full flow barbs).
- Swapped out pump heads for Chugger SS versions.
- Moved gas control valves from rear to front for easier access.
- Added tippy dump. This helps greatly on double brew days for fast swap to batch #2.

Current Configuration

Tippy Dump view (See separate thread on Tippy dump here: https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f51/tippy-dump-blichmann-mash-tun-266852/ )

Front view - no kettles
View attachment 17786

Front view - with kettles
View attachment 17787

Therminator/Chiller view
View attachment 17788

Pump/Valve view
View attachment 17789

Burner View
View attachment 17790

I am very jealous of you

 

[brewman !]

How high is the underside of the tubing that holds up the bottom shelf above the floor ? (Ie, how much ground clearance does it have ?) Would you change that +/- if you did it over ?

Thanks

 

[JonW]

How high is the underside of the tubing that holds up the bottom shelf above the floor ? (Ie, how much ground clearance does it have ?) Would you change that +/- if you did it over ?

Thanks

I was shooting for 8" total clearance under the tubing which is a combination of th 4" leg and just over 4" from the wheels. I ended up with 8.25" of clearance. I'd do it just the same again.

 

[JonW]

Duplicate post deleted.

 

[brewman !]

I was shooting for 8" total clearance under the tubing which is a combination of th 4" leg and just over 4" from the wheels. I ended up with 8.25" of clearance. I'd do it just the same again.

Thank you for sharing that, and everything in this thread.

How much room does that leave under your pumps ?

I was shooting for 10" of clearance before I read your reply.

 

[JonW]

How much room does that leave under your pumps ?

It leaves about 1.5-2" under the QD.

 

[JonW]

Here is a question to anybody using an electric bbq igniter.
I am using the 3 probe igniter on my rig that I am building. It is controlled via Arduino -> Shift register -> Relay -> Igniter. The problem is that when the igniter is sparking, the power surge that it creates makes the shift registers go all wonky and lose their output status. Anybody have any thoughts/suggestions/input of any kind?

Some of the BrewTroller guys went through this, not sure what the resolution ever was if there was one.

I started having some intermittent problems with my spark igniters. I swapped them out for the hot surface igniters (HSI's) and they are working great. They are powered by 120V, so I wired all three of them to a single SSR. The BCS powers them up 5 seconds before opening the gas valve and continues to keep them on for another 5 seconds after the valve is opened. They are working flawlessly. I'm now going to suggest these to anyone doing an igniter system like mine.

You can search ebay for "Honeywell Hot Surface Igniter". Model number is Q3200U1004.

This is the one I used: