Single Tier, 3 Pump, BCS-462, Automated Rig

[JonW]

Beautiful setup Jon! Are the gas solenoid valves adjustable or is it just full blast?

There is no adjustment to the solenoid valves, but I have manual valves on them as well. I set the flame level with the manual valves and then the solenoids just cycle on and off at that level.

 

[MPOWELLJR]

Man that is a nice looking rig! Congrats on the build!

 

[lgoolsby]

First off, gorgeous rig dude. I am looking at ideas for how to update mine and I think I may borrow liberally from your design. Hope you don't mind.

I do have one quick question. My current rig was painted with (I guess) high temp rattle can paint by the person I bought it off. Does the powder coating seem to hold up to the heat better? The area around my burners I have noticed the paint is all but gone. It doesn't seem to be an issue yet, but I can imagine rust being an issue one day, and the idea of my beer having paint fumes in it doesn't exactly give me the warm fuzzies (at least not the ones I like).

Also, what prompted you to move the gas line to the front? Was it just ease of access, or did you have another reason?

Lastly, (and this could be a question on any other thread, but I am here...) what about water shielding the servos and solenoids for the gas and liquid? Are they shielded already or do you worry about spillage on them like the March pumps, too?

 

[JonW]

First off, gorgeous rig dude. I am looking at ideas for how to update mine and I think I may borrow liberally from your design. Hope you don't mind.

Thanks. I don't mind at all.... I've pulled many of my ideas from others as well.

I do have one quick question. My current rig was painted with (I guess) high temp rattle can paint by the person I bought it off. Does the powder coating seem to hold up to the heat better? The area around my burners I have noticed the paint is all but gone. It doesn't seem to be an issue yet, but I can imagine rust being an issue one day, and the idea of my beer having paint fumes in it doesn't exactly give me the warm fuzzies (at least not the ones I like).

They powder coat is holding up pretty good, except on the very top where the kettles sit. At some point, I'll have to sand & paint the top surface. I would just go with the high temp paint. You'll only get paint fumes the first time you fire it up. It will be fine after that.

Also, what prompted you to move the gas line to the front? Was it just ease of access, or did you have another reason?

Yeah, it was just ease of access. I would have to go behind the rig to adjust them and it just made more sense to have all the plumbing accessible from the front.

Lastly, (and this could be a question on any other thread, but I am here...) what about water shielding the servos and solenoids for the gas and liquid? Are they shielded already or do you worry about spillage on them like the March pumps, too?

Because I don't connect/disconnect any plumbing during the brew day, I don't really worry about liquid spills. The ball valves are pretty well sealed and they've taken a few splashes without issue.

 

[lgoolsby]

Thanks for the quick reply. Any chance of getting a wiring schematic? Especially the bits on the bottom of the stand and how you connect it all to the BCS?

 

[JonW]

Thanks for the quick reply. Any chance of getting a wiring schematic? Especially the bits on the bottom of the stand and how you connect it all to the BCS?

I don't have a wiring diagram, but what is under the stand is pretty straight forward.

3 BCS outputs to 3 120V SSR's for the pumps.
3 BCS outputs to 3 120V SSR's for the gas valves.
6 BCS outputs to a 12V relay board for the 6 liquid valves.

 

[ShakyD]

Jon,

Love the simplicity of the system and would love to mimic it in a build of my own someday. Couple of questions:

1. How did you decide to go with the jet burners over Hurricanes or something similar? Were there any benefits with one over the other?

2. Can you show us some photos of your pilot light system and a parts list?

3. Is the BCS box on your wall hardwired to the brewstand (i.e. temp probes, valves, etc.) or is it somehow wireless?

 

[JonW]

Jon,

Love the simplicity of the system and would love to mimic it in a build of my own someday. Couple of questions:

1. How did you decide to go with the jet burners over Hurricanes or something similar? Were there any benefits with one over the other?

2. Can you show us some photos of your pilot light system and a parts list?

3. Is the BCS box on your wall hardwired to the brewstand (i.e. temp probes, valves, etc.) or is it somehow wireless?

I went with the jet burners for several reasons. First was that a friend was successfully using them. Also was the fact that there were few useful discussions of jet/hurricanes on natural gas. Finally, I picked up all 3 burners plus the solenoids, pilots, valves, flex lines, etc. all for $150 from someone who went electric. That sealed the deal! The jet burners have worked well for me, but they do get a little annoying with how loud they are. I will be at a friends this afternoon for a brew day and he just did his rig with the hurricane burners. I'll be paying close attention to them to see how they work.

I don't have a parts list for the pilots as they came with the burners. I will say however that just last night I pulled them out and put on electronic igniters. In theory, the pilots work well. However, I live by the beach and I have a continuous breeze that causes issues with blowing them out. Walmart carries a bbq igniter system with 3 probes for less than $20. I've wired that into the BCS system and the burners now fire automatically. This works pretty well and is way cheaper than using the 24V igniter systems that many use. I am always present at my rig when the burners are going on and off, so I'm not concerned with having the (expensive) safety valves and igniters. I'll try to get some new pics up soon.

Regarding the wiring, my BCS has 3 cat-5 data jacks on a faceplate on the wall and another 3 on a j-box on the stand. On brew day, I attach 3 patch cables between the stand and the wall. One cable is for temp probes, one for the 12v valves and the third one for the pumps and solenoids (via SSR's).

 

[Tomtanner]

I intend to copy you....... A lot.

 

[Bru]

Do the electric ball valves adjust when you start sparging or do you recirculate the mash and sparge at the same rate ?

 

[JonW]

Do the electric ball valves adjust when you start sparging or do you recirculate the mash and sparge at the same rate ?

The electric ball valves are either full open or full closed. They do not adjust anywhere in between.

There are manual ball valves at the top of each kettle to use for setting flow rates.

 

[Bru]

It seems a pity to have to adjust a ball valve when the sparge starts (Im assuming you recirculate slower than the sparge).
There must be a way to get the ball valves to close/open to a preset setting. Possibly one of the electronic experts can comment.
Or do you could divert the wort through a different ball valve when the sparge starts ?

 

[xsists]

Have any pictures of the control unit (wiring)? I'm looking into the BCS method and would like to see examples of the control units and wiring.

 

[JonW]

It seems a pity to have to adjust a ball valve when the sparge starts (Im assuming you recirculate slower than the sparge).
There must be a way to get the ball valves to close/open to a preset setting. Possibly one of the electronic experts can comment.
Or do you could divert the wort through a different ball valve when the sparge starts ?

Pretty easy to set a flow rate. I don't see that as needing to be automated.

Have any pictures of the control unit (wiring)? I'm looking into the BCS method and would like to see examples of the control units and wiring.

I do not currently have any pictures of the inside of my control panel. I can tell you though that it is MUCH simpler than most of the electric brewery builds you see going on here. All outputs from the BCS are low voltage triggers that you wire up to relays. As noted above, 6 outputs to a relay board to trigger the valves, 6 outputs to SSR's to trigger the pumps and solenoids (for gas) and a few more outputs for igniter, kegerators and fermenter all going to SSR's.

 

[ShakyD]

Regarding the wiring, my BCS has 3 cat-5 data jacks on a faceplate on the wall and another 3 on a j-box on the stand. On brew day, I attach 3 patch cables between the stand and the wall. One cable is for temp probes, one for the 12v valves and the third one for the pumps and solenoids (via SSR's).

Jon, could you share a little more as to how the cat-5 cable works? For instance, do you have to somehow split the cat-5 to control 3 pumps with one cable or is there some electronics piece that accomplishments this? Sorry for the newbie questions, but I have never wired anything in my life.

 

[JonW]

Jon, could you share a little more as to how the cat-5 cable works? For instance, do you have to somehow split the cat-5 to control 3 pumps with one cable or is there some electronics piece that accomplishments this? Sorry for the newbie questions, but I have never wired anything in my life.

A Cat-5 cable is an 8 conductor cable with 4 twisted pair of wires inside. Inside the panel I just stripped the wires and used all 8 conductors for 6 outputs and a ground. The other end is terminated in a standard RJ45 data jack on my wall. I then use standard 7 ft. patch cables to attach to the brew stand. On the brew stand, there is a J-box mounted to the stand that also has RJ45 data jacks. The wiring from those jacks is then broken back out to the individual wires to connect to the SSR's.

 

[mda]

I don't have a parts list for the pilots as they came with the burners. I will say however that just last night I pulled them out and put on electronic igniters. In theory, the pilots work well. However, I live by the beach and I have a continuous breeze that causes issues with blowing them out. Walmart carries a bbq igniter system with 3 probes for less than $20. I've wired that into the BCS system and the burners now fire automatically. This works pretty well and is way cheaper than using the 24V igniter systems that many use. I am always present at my rig when the burners are going on and off, so I'm not concerned with having the (expensive) safety valves and igniters. I'll try to get some new pics up soon.

I'm in a similar situation with a custom designed controller and was originally planning on lighting my burners with a loop of nichrome wire driven by a triac. I wanted to experiment with the walmart bbq lighter before committing to a heating wire design and was curious how you've connected the spark generator to your controller.

Did you solder wires to the battery contacts and connect it to a relay output? If so, are you driving it with 1.5v like the AAA battery, 3.3V, 12V? Any special considerations for electrical isolation from the rest of the controller?

I would be concerned that if the spark probes were disconnected or moved too far from the frame the path of least resistance could be back through the power source relay (usually ~4kv-5kv isolation, with the spark generator making ~20-25kv) and damage the controller. But without knowing the circuit in the bbq igniter its impossible to say. I'd take one apart to find out but seeing that its potted in about 1" of epoxy that would probably be fruitless..

I've really enjoyed reading about your rig, you've influenced me to mimic your three pump, six ball valve manifold design--

 

[JonW]

Did you solder wires to the battery contacts and connect it to a relay output? If so, are you driving it with 1.5v like the AAA battery, 3.3V, 12V? Any special considerations for electrical isolation from the rest of the controller?

Yes, I did solder wires into the battery holder of the igniter. I then built a small circuit board that had an AA battery holder on it and a solid state relay. The BCS triggers the DC SSR IC and that triggers the igniter. I haven't used it for a brew day yet, but so far it seems to work fine. Another friend just did this same setup with his BCS and brewed last weekend and it worked fine.

 

[armageddon]

Any update on your ignitors? I'm very interested to hear how they are working out for you.

 

[JonW]

Any update on your ignitors? I'm very interested to hear how they are working out for you.

I should be brewing on it tomorrow with the igniter setup. I'll post back how it goes.

 

[kevmo]

I should be done with my rig in the next couple weeks. I thought you might like to see your influence. I'll post a full explanation when it's all done.

http://i.imgur.com/3AEGS.jpg

 

[Mike3701]

I should be done with my rig in the next couple weeks. I thought you might like to see your influence. I'll post a full explanation when it's all done.

http://i.imgur.com/3AEGS.jpg

Just keep an eye on how close those motorized valves are to the burners. I think i have the same ones and had to move them away from my burners because they were starting to melt.

 

[kevmo]

Just keep an eye on how close those motorized valves are to the burners. I think i have the same ones and had to move them away from my burners because they were starting to melt.

What distance worked for you? I'm going heat shield some of the other components maybe I'll try to shield them too.

 

[JonW]

Just keep an eye on how close those motorized valves are to the burners. I think i have the same ones and had to move them away from my burners because they were starting to melt.

Ditto on the valve distance for heat. You have to be real careful with that. I wouldn't want my valves any closer than they currently are because of the heat.

 

[JonW]

Any update on your ignitors? I'm very interested to hear how they are working out for you.

Brewed today with the new igniter system. It worked flawlessly! The BCS fires the igniters for a few seconds every time a gas valve opens. My standing pilot lights kept getting blown out by wind, so this was a nice change.

FYI - there is no safety system on these. If the igniter doesn't light the burner, then gas will still be flowing. I have a manual override button to also trigger the igniters in the event the 3 second auto-trigger does not get them lit (which did not happen at all today). Just like when using the pilot light system, I do not leave the area just in case a burner does not light for any reason.

The igniter is a 3 probe igniter from Walmart (about $20). It uses a single AA battery for firing the igniters. I hardwired the switch of it to a DC SSR. The BCS triggers the SSR, which triggers the igniter. Simple setup.

 

[wncbrewer]

It looks to me like your temp probes are on the "in" side of the pumps, a lot of rigs I have seen put them closer to the vessel being monitored. How did you decide to put them there? Has it worked well? Awesome rig, I will be borrowing a lot from you when I get the time and money....cheers...wnc

 

[JonW]

It looks to me like your temp probes are on the "in" side of the pumps, a lot of rigs I have seen put them closer to the vessel being monitored. How did you decide to put them there? Has it worked well? Awesome rig, I will be borrowing a lot from you when I get the time and money....cheers...wnc

Since I do continuous recirculation on both the HLT and MLT, it doesn't matter that they are not in the vessel. I like the probes where they are because it keeps them protected and keeps the wiring out of the way.

 

[wncbrewer]

Cool, I like that they are down there away from flame and out of the way.

One more quick question...have you ever had trouble with stuck sparges or over compacting the grain bed with constant recirculation? On my current system, this will happen if I vorlauf too quickly (open the pump outflow too much)

 

[JonW]

Cool, I like that they are down there away from flame and out of the way.

One more quick question...have you ever had trouble with stuck sparges or over compacting the grain bed with constant recirculation? On my current system, this will happen if I vorlauf too quickly (open the pump outflow too much)

No problem at all. I mill my own grain and I have the mill set to a very fine crush. The BL false bottom works very well. I do have the flow throttled back quite a bit, but still at a good rate. I have run it through at full throttle and it did not stick. Also, I re-stir the grain every 15 minutes and then let it sit for the last 15 before starting the fly sparge.

I usually adjust my valves for 3 different levels:
Full Flow - When I'm heating strike water, it recirculates at full throttle.
Med. Flow - When mashing, I want the recirculation to keep the temperature consistent throughout the grain bed.
Low Flow - When fly sparging, I cut the flow to get my 12-14 gallons of wort in about 45 minutes.

 

[wncbrewer]

No problem at all. I mill my own grain and I have the mill set to a very fine crush. The BL false bottom works very well. I do have the flow throttled back quite a bit, but still at a good rate. I have run it through at full throttle and it did not stick. Also, I re-stir the grain every 15 minutes and then let it sit for the last 15 before starting the fly sparge.

I usually adjust my valves for 3 different levels:
Full Flow - When I'm heating strike water, it recirculates at full throttle.
Med. Flow - When mashing, I want the recirculation to keep the temperature consistent throughout the grain bed.
Low Flow - When fly sparging, I cut the flow to get my 12-14 gallons of wort in about 45 minutes.

Thanks...I was planning on using my current false bottom on my build, but may need to reevaluate. Thanks for the responses....wnc