Simple efficiency tips?

[loneoak]

I'm pretty new to AG (only 4 batches under my belt ... literally, they are now under my belt), but have extensive history with extract brewing. I keep getting a OG a few points below the bottom of the recipe's estimated range. I feel like an idiot saying this, but even though I'm asking an efficiency question I am not yet in the habit of actually calculating the efficiency. Don't care about the math and the gadgets, just want a beer that has proper body and alcohol. So if anyone has some straightforward ideas about how to get my efficiency up, that would be great.

My setup:
- Always organic, fully modified grains crushed that day from the LHBS
- Add appropriate amounts of gypsum to my reverse-osmosisized water
- Mash in the brewpot at 152-54, ~45 minutes
- Iodine test looks good
- Fly sparge in my homemade lauter-tun that consists of two buckets and a spigot, as described by Papazian
- Sparge takes a long time because spigot is small. By long time I mean at least 1 hour.
- Keep the sparge water temp up so grain bed stays over 160.
- 1 tsp of lactic acid added to sparge water to keep pH from going basic

What am I not seeing here?
Should I just buy a couple more pounds of grains?
Should I go for batch sparging and build one of them neato cooler thingys?

 

[clayof2day]

Ask them to double crush your grains or see if they can set their mill spacing finer for you. Crush is probaly the biggest factor in eff. then you can worry about other fun stuff like mash pH. Try double crushing and make sure you get your system down before you try to get too technical. Good Luck!

 

[Yuri_Rage]

- Always organic, fully modified grains crushed that day from the LHBS
Not entirely sure about this, but "organic" doesn't always mean better. I've had a fair share of pathetic looking and foul tasting "organic" produce. Perhaps the same holds true for "organic" malt (please, lets not get into a philosophical debate on the merits of "organic" over this...keep it to facts or direct observations that pertain to the subject).

As Clay says, crush is EVERYTHING. You should actually have a little flour in the mix along with mostly intact empty husks.

- Add appropriate amounts of gypsum to my reverse-osmosisized water
Are you sure it's appropriate? If you're not sure, you're better off not adding anything.

- Mash in the brewpot at 152-54, ~45 minutes
Do you stir at least once? I'd recommend stirring at dough-in, then every 15-20 minutes thereafter, leaving the grainbed alone for the last 20 minutes to get it set.

- Sparge takes a long time because spigot is small. By long time I mean at least 1 hour.
As it should...

- 1 tsp of lactic acid added to sparge water to keep pH from going basic
Again, are you sure you should be doing this? Perhaps a little pH 5.2 buffer would do better for you than blindly adding acids and salts.

 

[loneoak]

What is the dough-in?

What is 5.2 buffer?

Is there any reason to NOT add gypsum to completely soft water?

And while I would happily give a disposition on the merits of organic (I am actually a professional philosopher, so don't get me started with the disposing), I actually don't have a choice as the LHBS is organic-only. I would be really surprised if anyone actually had evidence that organic malts are worse than "conventional", but I would still choose a lower efficiency organic brew over a pesticide-laced one.

 

[Yuri_Rage]

What is the dough-in?

The initial step of mashing - mixing the warm water and grain.

-- What is 5.2 buffer?

A chemical solution that should take the guesswork out of your mash pH. It's a commercially available product.

-- Is there any reason to NOT add gypsum to completely soft water?

RO water isn't completely soft, and if you don't have a water report, you're blindly adding chemicals. Some minerals and chemicals are not removed completely by an RO system, and it's likely that the gypsum you're adding is an over-correction.

-- And while I would happily give a disposition on the merits of organic (I am actually a professional philosopher, so don't get me started with the disposing), I actually don't have a choice as the LHBS is organic-only. I would be really surprised if anyone actually had evidence that organic malts are worse than "conventional", but I would still choose a lower efficiency organic brew over a pesticide-laced one.

To each his own. I have no proof that "organic" is any better or worse, I'm just conjecturing based on grocery store observations.

 

[malkore]

why the RO water?
my tap water is 7.8 pH, considered hard with a dKH around 10 (like 168ppm carbonate hardness) and its treated with chloramine, so it doesn't boil off.

my beer tastes fine, and my last batch the recipe was designed around 72% efficiency and I overshot the OG by .006

and that's a single infusion, batch sparge, SS braid in my cooler.

and my LHBS does crush my grain, and there's a smidge of flour in the bottom of each ziploc bag. its also a highly modified 2-row so it converts in 40 mins.

not saying my way is 'better', just trying to give a comparison. I've only done 2 AG batches though.

 

[Blender]

I buy Gambrinus organic malt and it is very good. It is not better but it tastes great, pretty close to Marris Otter. I am getting roughly 70-75% efficiency using batch sparging and my crusher. I filter my water through a carbon filter and add some 5.2 buffer to the strike water. I would try to get a finer grain crush and work from there.

 

[loneoak]

Our local water tastes awful, thus the RO from the water store. Has nothing to do with a brewing decision, really. SWMBO decides on water issues.

The water store guy says the mineral report on the water is "there is as close to nothing in it as possible," so my LHBS says "add gypsum."

 

[Yuri_Rage]

The water store guy says the mineral report on the water is "there is as close to nothing in it as possible," so my LHBS says "add gypsum."

These are both just shots in the dark. Lacking any other info, you'd have to assume that the water you're buying is nearly the same as distilled.

You could use a water calculator (BeerSmith has one or do a search for one called BreWater) in order to mimic the proper water profile for the style beer you're brewing. Start with distilled water in the calculator and add salts until you get something close.

 

[Jaybird]

Or just buy natural spring H20 and add the 5.2 buffer I know a little on the pricey side but as mentioned above I would start with the crush and go from there. Do you have any off flavors in the beer that could be identifed? If so go with the water and the crush
just my .02
JJ

 

[FlyGuy]

If you are only adding gypsum and lactic acid to your RO water, that is going to really acidify your mash. Unless you are doing a pilsner or something else really light in colour, you are going to need some carbonates in your water. I bet your mash pH is well below optimum, and that may contribute to your overall poor efficiency.

As was suggested, try using spring water instead of RO water. I bet it works out much better. You could try some 5.2 pH stabilizer, too, if the spring water alone doesn't improve your beer.

 

[perry]

loneoak wrote:

"I am not yet in the habit of actually calculating the efficiency."

Why do you think your efficiency is low, then. I'm just curious as to your numbers.

And what do you mean by "professional philosopher"?

Cheers, -p

 

[Got Trub?]

In my opinion consistency is more importan then efficiency. If you are consistently getting a few points lower I would stick with your current process and add enough extra grain to make up the difference...

 

[srm775]

You want to improve your efficiency? Mash longer. The last 5 or 6 batches I've done, I've mashed overnight and have greatly improved my efficiency. With batch sparging, which I only slightly up the grain bill, I have nearly 80% efficiency.

the longer it sits, the more time the enzymes have to convert the sugar. And I haven't noticed any off flavors from long mashes either, and that's over a wide range of ale styles (dubbel, cream, ipa, pale ale and wit).

 

[loneoak]

I think my efficiency is low becuase my gravities are always lower than the recipe indicates it should be. And the beer is lacking in body and alcohol for the style. The fermentation always goes well, so I just sort of guessed that it must be the efficiency.

One batch that is in the second fermenter has some off flavors, but I don't know if that is going to resolve once its in the bottle. The other brews taste good, they just aren't as robust as I expect.

By professional philosopher, I mean someone who teaches philosophy at a university.

 

[srm775]

I think my efficiency is low becuase my gravities are always lower than the recipe indicates it should be. And the beer is lacking in body and alcohol for the style. The fermentation always goes well, so I just sort of guessed that it must be the efficiency.

One batch that is in the second fermenter has some off flavors, but I don't know if that is going to resolve once its in the bottle. The other brews taste good, they just aren't as robust as I expect.

By professional philosopher, I mean someone who teaches philosophy at a university.

How much lower are they? Most recipes have a target SG and FG but there's always is a little wiggle room on both sides of each.

If you're batch sparging, up the base-grain bill by a lbs or two. If you're fly-sparging, check your technique, perhaps you're doing something wrong. Also, double-check your hydrometer and make sure it's accurate

 

[TexLaw]

I think my efficiency is low becuase my gravities are always lower than the recipe indicates it should be. And the beer is lacking in body and alcohol for the style. The fermentation always goes well, so I just sort of guessed that it must be the efficiency.

Have you calculated the OG you should get with 100% efficiency, considering your grain bill and water volume? That's the only way to know what sort of effeciency you are actually getting. You may be getting excellent efficiency, but with a low grain bill.

I'm not saying you're wrong about your efficiency, but it sounds like you haven't investigated it. It sounds like you do know you have a lower OG than you would like, but there are more than one way to have that problem. The first step in solving a problem is determining the cause.


TL