Simple cider from store-bought juice

[paint_it_black]

Check out EASY RECIPE: How to make Homemade Hard Apple Cider - Make your own Hard Apple Cider for a great method and introduction on how to backsweeten bottle carbonated and conditioned cider.

Sweet, I'll check it out. Thanks!

 

[paint_it_black]

Okay, so here's what happened with batch #2 yesterday:

It had fermented down to 1.006 and was still working pretty herd (bubbled about every 5-6 seconds in the airlock). I personally thought it tasted a bit too tart, but my family tasted it and said it was good, so we went ahead and bottled, priming at about 2.25 volumes CO2 with dextrose.
Because it was still so active at the time of bottling, I'm a bit concerned about bottle bombs -- is this a legitimate concern? Or should I not worry?

I'm wondering how it would have gone if I would have let it ferment out pretty much totally dry and just added more juice at bottling...I like a good balance of dryness and apple taste. might try that next time. Also next time I think I might try making a batch with just juice and no added sugar (I added 1 lb dextrose to this batch, brought it up to 1.059 SG)

 

[Pappers_]

Okay, so here's what happened with batch #2 yesterday:

It had fermented down to 1.006 and was still working pretty herd (bubbled about every 5-6 seconds in the airlock). I personally thought it tasted a bit too tart, but my family tasted it and said it was good, so we went ahead and bottled, priming at about 2.25 volumes CO2 with dextrose.
Because it was still so active at the time of bottling, I'm a bit concerned about bottle bombs -- is this a legitimate concern? Or should I not worry?

I'm wondering how it would have gone if I would have let it ferment out pretty much totally dry and just added more juice at bottling...I like a good balance of dryness and apple taste. might try that next time. Also next time I think I might try making a batch with just juice and no added sugar (I added 1 lb dextrose to this batch, brought it up to 1.059 SG)

Yes, bottle bombs are in your future. The cider will continue fermenting until its dry, that plus your priming sugar will give you exploding bottles.

You should read the web site I posted above - if you ferment to dry, then add more apple juice, the yeast will eat up all the new apple juice sugars, too, leading to a dry cider (in the best case) or exploding bottles (in the worst case).

 

[paint_it_black]

Hmmm, righhtt.... So I guess once I start to see some decent carbonation in the bottles all I can really do is try to refrigerate all of it. That might help me avoid explosions...

Yep, I was just reading that site. Thanks for the help and the link. So for future batches, if I want a more appley tasting cider, can I stop fermentation before it's fully dried out by racking to a secondary and/or cold crashing, then bottling?

 

[Jacob_Marley]

Check out EASY RECIPE: How to make Homemade Hard Apple Cider - Make your own Hard Apple Cider for a great method and introduction on how to backsweeten bottle carbonated and conditioned cider.

After having checked out the site, a couple random points about cleaning & sanitizing ...

In brewing/vinting we clean and sanitize. Sterilization is unnecessary and is used in the practice of medicine. Sanitizing, which kills most microorganisms, but does not guarantee the elimination of *all* microorganisms and pathogens, is the standard in brewing/vinting.

Right-on about not using bleach.
She is absolutely correct about not using bleach. The bleach issue is worth a quick explanation.
Around winemaking using bleach is considered an extremely bad practice ... one should avoid the habit of anything “chlor”.
Chlorine is one of the two elements that create TCA (trichloroanisole) ... known for the musty, moldy taint it causes, this is a compound that even in very small amounts is a really fast way to ruin a large batch of wine and so is a big concern in commercial fine winemaking. Corks are known to absorb TCA... this is “cork taint” ... natural corks also allow TCA to transfer thru them from the environment during long term storage. Bentonite and filter pads are known to absorb it too (viz. good storage practices).

Hypochlorite containing solutions are avoided throughout the winery; cellars, barrel rooms, tasting rooms etc. This includes avoiding washing equipment or anything else in a commercial dishwasher which uses hypochlorite as the sanitizer.
Sani-Tabs, Bar-Rinse, bleach etc ... are all out. Not in floor drains (chlor based floor washes or bleach), not for cleaning surfaces, nothing.

When big wineries use municipal water, they actually use carbon filters to remove the chlorine and chloramine. We use, metabisulfite. This is a good practice for any wine which you are going put down to age if you do not want to take the risk of it possibly ending up smelling like a wet dog.

 

[Pappers_]

Jacob, I'd like to respond, not to criticize you or your critique, but because I worry that a new, inexperienced cider maker may decide not to look at the site based on your critique. I think this site is a great resource for the beginning cider maker who hasn't got their mind around the challenges of making semi-dry or sweet sparkling cider that's bottle conditioned. Paint_It_Black in this thread is a great example - he wants to make cider, but isn't clear on the concept that the yeast will eat up all the apple sugars and so now what do you do?

Jessica does not get everything exactly right, but she gives beginning cider makers a great and easy to follow tutorial on how to make cider will be semi-dry, sparkling and bottle conditioned, and that won't blow up on them.

. . . Just a few things I noticed right away ... in one section the site suggests that cider from the grocery store contains sodium chlorite ... oh man ... it does *not* contain sodium chlorite! (um, made in china? ;-)

I couldn't find this on the site. But what I did find was her clear instructions to not use juice or cider that has preservatives in it - Vitamin A (ascorbic acid) is fine, but not anything else. Pretty regularly, there are posts here about fermentation not starting off, and it almost always turns out to be that the poster used juice or cider with preservatives.

I disagree with Jessica's warning to never use regular, clear grocery store apple juice. I use that for my basic, simple sparkling cider that my spouse loves. But again, her basic point is on target, I think.

In another section it suggests that yeast not only eats sugar but also eats spices. Yeasts do not eat spice.

But her point was that adding spices before or during fermentation changes the flavor profile of the spice, which is correct. One of the big mistakes beginning cider makers make is over- or badly- spicing ciders - a good alternative is to spice after fermentation, to taste.

The site further suggests that it is the amount of yeast added during priming that creates bottle-bombs and that bottle carbonated cider is safe to store at room temperature if you did not add too much yeast at priming! ?!?!

I don't see that, but she clearly makes the point in at least three places that I see that leaving sugar in the bottle or adding sugar beyond priming to the cider and then bottling will lead to exploding bottles. While she recognizes other methods, her method is to let the cider ferment dry, backsweeten with non-fermentable, prime and bottle. That is exactly what many beginning cider makers need to do.

The website author has the difference between cleaning, sanitizing and sterilizing in cider-making, incorrect. Never mind the definitions he tries to give.
In brewing/vinting we clean and sanitize. Sterilization is unnecessary and is used in the practice of medicine. Sanitizing, which kills most microorganisms, but does not guarantee the elimination of *all* microorganisms and pathogens, is the standard in brewing/vinting.

Yes, its unfortunate that she even uses the word sterile, its not correct. But if you look at the five numbered instructions she gives, she gets it right - clean and then sanitize with star san. She makes the point clearly that many newbies don't get - those are two different and distinct steps. If they follow her steps, they will get it right.

And that's my basic point - if a new cider maker follows her instructions, they will make good, semi-dry, sparkling, bottle-conditioned cider, without blowing up bottles.

Honestly, I think many newbies find it easier to ask their questions here rather than read this easy to follow resource. Then they end up bottling cider that is still in mid-fermentation, like in this thread, and wonder if their bottles will blow up. I wish more new cider makers would read her site.

I don't think Jessica hangs around here very much and I don't remember her user name, in any case. You could send her an email, though, I'm sure she'd appreciate hearing from you, Jacob.

Again, this isn't a criticism of your critiques, like I said, she doesn't get everything exactly right. But, in my opinion, her method is sound and very helpful for a new cider maker.

 

[Pappers_]

Hmmm, righhtt.... So I guess once I start to see some decent carbonation in the bottles all I can really do is try to refrigerate all of it. That might help me avoid explosions...

Yep, I was just reading that site. Thanks for the help and the link. So for future batches, if I want a more appley tasting cider, can I stop fermentation before it's fully dried out by racking to a secondary and/or cold crashing, then bottling?

Racking and cold crashing can work, but then the only way to carbonate it will be to keg it. If you knock the yeast out, they can't do the work to bottle condition and carbonate. So you will end up with semi-dry still cider, which can be delicious.

Another option that I use is to bottle pasteurize. In some ways, its ridiculously simple. But some people have had bottles explode on them - after dozens of batches, I've not had that , but I don't doubt their experiences. For me, it works well.

 

[Jacob_Marley]

Jacob, I'd like to respond, not to criticize you or your critique, but because I worry that a new, inexperienced cider maker may decide not to look at the site based on your critique ...

I didn't realize that was a member's website. I would have withheld the criticism ... for the tons of websites out there, all with varying degrees of accuracy, in hindsight I would not have been so critical ... both of somebody actually from homebrewtalk, and also who obviously put a lot of time into it. And as you suggest ... instruction - and good instruction - is where you find it. And that website certainly has valuable info too. Thanks for mentioning it, Pappers.
Mea Culpa ;-)

 

[Pappers_]

I didn't realize that was a member's website. I would have withheld the criticism ... for the tons of websites out there, all with varying degrees of accuracy, in hindsight I would not have been so critical ... both of somebody actually from homebrewtalk, and also who obviously put a lot of time into it. And as you suggest ... instruction - and good instruction - is where you find it. And that website certainly has valuable info too. Thanks for mentioning it, Pappers.
Mea Culpa ;-)

I think your critique is fair, Jacob, no mea culpa is necessary. I also think that following Jessica's method and instructions would be helpful to some new cider makers.

 

[Fuse]

While she recognizes other methods, her method is to let the cider ferment dry, backsweeten with non-fermentable, prime and bottle.

She mentions one product that I have never heard of. If the plan is to fully ferment and carb with CO2, what can be used as a non-fermentable sweetener?

 

[Fuse]

Little more reading, splenda is similar.