Side-By-Side Fridge - Fermentation Chamber (with heat)/Keezer combo?

[jtkratzer]

I've seen threads where the entire fridge is gutted into one big fermentation chamber with heat. I've seen others where the freezer side turned into a kegerator/keezer with the fridge side for fermentation.

I'd like to set one up with four ball locks on the freezer side and be able to fit four fermentors (5 gallons) on the fridge side. I need to be able to heat the fridge side a bit in the winter as the fridge will be in the garage and the winter temps can get down to the single digits. It's probably not that cold in the garage, but it's definitely cold enough to need heat.

I'd like to be able to keep the kegs in the 40s or so for serving and have fermentation temps range from the 40s-72 or so. Is that reasonable?

Just trying to figure out if using heat in the winter time when fermenting an ale is going to be a constant fight against the temp on the kegerator side.

 

[rtrevino]

Check out my build in my signature. I havent added heat but I think that with the addition of another controller you could add heat and it would not affect the freezer side at all. Hell, you may get lucky and the heat from the fermentation may be all that you need.

 

[jtkratzer]

Thanks, I saw this last night, but hadn't read all the threads I opened looking for ideas. I replied on your thread as well.

Looks a lot like what I want to do. Is there any particular reason why I see a lot more LOVE controllers vs Auber PIDs? Doesn't Auber make controllers that can handle heating and cooling on the same unit.

 

[rtrevino]

Thanks, I saw this last night, but hadn't read all the threads I opened looking for ideas. I replied on your thread as well.

Looks a lot like what I want to do. Is there any particular reason why I see a lot more LOVE controllers vs Auber PIDs? Doesn't Auber make controllers that can handle heating and cooling on the same unit.

I do not know much about the Auder controls but Love makes many models including one that does heating and cooling. The unit I used in this build is one of those units, but instead of controlling a heating function it controls the pc fan. When sp2, the refrigerator/right side, calls for cooling the fan turns on. This function sp2 could be used for heating instead but in my build I need it to control the fan. I would need an additional single stage controller to add a heating element if I ever need to raise the temperature higher then what it could attain from the natural heat generated during the fermentation process.

 

[jtkratzer]

I just talked to Auber Instruments and they recommended the SYL-2342 controller. I would need two controllers to do two different cooling temps and heat. The guy I talked to said an incandescent light bulb is a commonly used source for heating that the 200 watt output should be able to easily raise the temperature inside of a fridge to 100* above ambient temp. I don't need that much, but that would definitely cover me to 75* for any temp I've ever seen in Lancaster, Pa.

It would be nice if there was a controller that displayed the cooling set point, heat set point, as well as current temp without having to cycle through the display.

Even if it's just an LED, I'd like to have an indicator of when the heating process is active.

 

[jtkratzer]

Anyone else done something similar?

 

[jtkratzer]

The two SYL-2342s and thermocouples are in. Still looking for that fridge. Got the green light from SWMBO to order the rest of the stuff I need for kegging (regulator, lines, disconnects, faucets, etc) for my birthday.

 

[Nail]

I have converted a side by side also. I am only able to get 3 cornies in the freezer side but mine is an older (80's) model with much less cuft than is available now. I use either a fermwrap or if I am lagering multiple fermenters a small space heater that can one can get for less than $15. The temps that you are looking for are easily obtainable. I used the cheap eBay controllers that are featured in many posts. Although they read in C they do offer heating and cooling capabilities.

 

[jtkratzer]

$60 CL-find fridge is in the truck.

 

[Sixpak]

Start posting pics of the build

 

[jtkratzer]

Start posting pics of the build

Right now, it'd just be pics of the stuff, which I'll do when I get the fridge unloaded. I have a feeling the progress might be a bit slow as I'm going to be pretty busy on the weekends through Thanksgiving.

 

[Sixpak]

Wasn't trying to rush ya. I love watching a build in progress, that and it helps me refine my decisions as to what I'll do when it's finally my turn.
This was more of a way to prod ya to post pictures and get my subscribed to the thread

 

[jtkratzer]

Here is my fridge sans shelves and all loose internals except for the moveable shelves on the fridge side. Based on the paperwork, I'm thinking this jammer is from 1983.

 

[drkwoods]

wow, thats almost exactly my fridge!!!(minus the water/ice door) if you need any help let me know.. I did a thread on my build. you can check it out.
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f51/side-side-build-keezer-fermentation-276954/

 

[jtkratzer]

wow, thats almost exactly my fridge!!!(minus the water/ice door) if you need any help let me know.. I did a thread on my build. you can check it out.
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f51/side-side-build-keezer-fermentation-276954/

Yeah, I need to get started on this project, right now I just have a ton of beer in bottles and a keg on the fridge side, but I'm going to have two more kegs to put in there shortly.

Your thread looks great. That's really what I was looking to do. Thanks.

 

[jtkratzer]

Time to work on this...took a break from most of the brewing hobby to deal with a bunch of other stuff and after getting very close to finishing my Brew Magic NG to e-HERMS conversion, I need to get after this as well.

Trying to decide how I want to chop this fridge as I picked up a vintage GE fridge for the kegerator. There's room for 3 ball locks in the GE, but no room for bottles.

The new system is going to produce 10-12 gallons of wort to ferment per batch, so...do I chop the fridge and make the freezer part a fridge for bottles and the fridge side for fermentation, or cut the center wall out and make the entire fridge a fermentation chamber?

I'm thinking I leave the two sides split. I was planning on having different temps on each side. That would allow me to ferment lagers and ales at the same time and/or keep some bottles cold on the lager side of the chamber.

 

[jtkratzer]

Alright...working on getting a plan for the wiring. I'm going to get the freezer side done first as I'm brewing tomorrow and I want to have temp control for the two weeks I'm going to be out of town without asking my very a lot pregnant wife to manage a swamp cooler.

I'm going to tap the hot incoming from the outlet prior to the compressor to power the PIDs. The freezer side PID (eventually used for lagering) will control the compressor using the internal relay. The fridge side, for fermenting ales, if I need separate temps between the two sides, will control two fans on the alarm high side to recirculate cooler air from the freezer side into the fridge side. The alarm low will power the light bulb to kick on and heat the fridge side.

Seems to make sense. I need to check the back of the fridge to find out what size fuse I need to use to protect the wiring and PIDs on the supply to power the PIDs.

Seem like that's a good way to accomplish this?

 

[jtkratzer]

Here are a couple pictures of the parts I need to deal with to get power and control cooling:

Power coming in...need to tap into this to power the PIDs. I'm going to pull that box out and see how the wiring is set up to power the fan that cools the compressor:

Compressor...easy, assuming red is hot, white is neutral. Going to check that shortly.

And the cooling fan. The wiring for this meets the power cord in a box on the underside of the fridge:

 

[jtkratzer]

Pictures of the wiring in that box...

I need to get to the back of the thermostat and see what color wires are being used for that and disconnect them.


Existing ventilation from the freezer to the fridge side at the top:

And at the bottom:

There's a manually adjustable baffle on the freezer side called "air control" and it has an effect on the frost level according to the label.

I'm going to plug the fridge back in and check for a blower in the top vent. I'm also going to check for continuity across the leads for the fan and the compressor to make sure they're tied together.

 

[jtkratzer]

Now that all of this extra nonsense is out of the way:

I'm left with an empty side-by-side and a lot more wiring in both sides than what appears RO come from the back side with all the power.

 

[jtkratzer]

Bummer...no blower/fan in the upper vent from the freezer to the fridge, just a bit of duct work from the coil in the back/bottom of the freezer up to the vent and across. Looks like the bottom vent is a return to the fan in the coil.

I plugged the fridge in to see what was still hot and nothing kicked on at all, which is what I expected as the thermostat should be acting like a switch to run the compressor.

Now...I have all this wiring that went the thermostat and what looks like a humidity sensor...what do I do with it?

 

[jtkratzer]

After stripping off the wiring for the water systems (drinking, ice machine), I'm left with this. The unlabeled red goes to the fridge side.

In the fridge side, the black and yellow are hot.

When I jump the red and black in the fridge, the compressor and fan kick on. I ran it for a few minutes to make sure everything is cooling properly and it's below 60* in a hurry. The red I jumped with the black hot has to go back to the main power terminals to distribute juice to the compressor and fan. If the PID will act as a switch to close those contacts when the temp gets too warm, I should be in business.

On the freezer side, only the yellow is hot. There's only yellow, white, blue, and ground.

 

[jtkratzer]

The only thing I'm concerned about is the hot yellow. I don't know where it picks up 120V from because there are no yellow wires where the power comes in from the power cord, and then, out of nowhere, a hot yellow is coming through the fridge and freezer wall.

No idea where the orange wires go. The come out of the fridge wall and I don't see them anywhere else on the appliance. I'm guessing they have something to do with the thermostat or humidity sensor...

 

[jtkratzer]

Andy @ Auber Instruments is thinking I need to use a contactor with a 120V coil to close the connection that I jumped to power the compressor and fan.

I can't find any information about the wattage of the compressor and fan to determine if the relay output of the PID can support it or if a contactor is necessary.

 

[jtkratzer]

Andy called back and thinks I'll be good without a contactor. I'm going out to grab a few things for a remodeling project and then I should be set to get moving on this.

 

[jtkratzer]

I'm going to try to run the power to the PID with the yellow. I'll put the black on 9, neutral on 10, and the red for the load on 7. Thermocouple is hooked up where it's supposed to be.

I'm hoping this will at least get my freezer side to the temp I want as I'm not worried about heat at this time of the year.

I definitely want to get the entire project complete with the PIDs properly mounted, but all I'm concerned about right now is getting the compressor to cool the entire unit to something between 62-70* F. When I get back from a 2-week road trip, I'll finish the computer fans to circulate air from the freezer, light bulb for heat, and mount everything.

 

[jtkratzer]

Power is on...now to figure out how to set the COOL parameter to make the PID cool the fridge rather than want to heat.

 

[jtkratzer]

COOL function figured out the way I want...11 is the setting for cooling, alarm suppression, and Fahrenheit.

However...my yellow hot is not always hot...so it's cycling the PID on and off in short intervals. I'm going to jump the yellow and red and see if that kicks the fan/compressor on.

I need the black constant hot to power the PID. I tried using that wire to power the PID on terminal 9, and jump it to terminal 8 for the relay, but as soon as the PID wanted to kick the compressor on, it blew the 1 amp fast blow fuse.

Out to see what happens with that yellow.

 

[jtkratzer]

No bueno on jumping the yellow with the red to kick the compressor on. It has 120V on it when the fridge is plugged in, but for some reason, it's not going to play along with me.

Back to the drawing board. I was hoping to use all the existing wiring without having to feed stuff through the walls/doors. I'm about to pull the water line through the wall and run a wire through that hole or try to feed a wire through the water line without pulling it out, maintaining the seal.

 

[jtkratzer]

There are two black wires bonded together providing a hot from the main power terminals. I split the two of them and one is in fact hot when the fridge is plugged in and the other black is not.

I tried using the hot to power the PID and the other on the relay output, but the relay is a dry switch, it's not powered through the PID. When I jumped terminals 8 and 9, I blew another fuse. So, the 1 amp fuse is not enough to run the compressor and PID on the same hot. I'm starting to think I need to run a separate line to supply the PID and use the constant hot inside the fridge on the relay output.