Sick of gushers! Analyze my sanitation and tell me what I'm doing wrong

[Eddiebosox]

I seem to suffer from a constant case of the gushers. Bacteria infected bottles with the telltale ring around the liquid top indicating a secondary fermentation by wild yeast resulting in a thinner, and slightly acidic taste. I have been doing the same sanitation process for a while now but I must be missing something. Since I am not sure of gushers happen only from bad sanitation during bottling, or can happen during the move to the fermentor or racking to secondary, ill explain my whole process

Fermentor - bottling buckets and/or carboy. I usually clean it with some Oxyclean Free and then a good rinse with water. Once it looks clean to the eye I fill my entire bucket with an Iodophor solution and let it sit for at least ten minutes.

Racking to secondary - I clean the racking cane and tube in oxyclean, same with secondary fermentor.


Bottling. Rinse all bottles in OXyclean for a good hour or so to get labels off and clean up gunk in bottles. This is where I think the problem may occur. A lot of bottles have moldy junk at the bottom (I usually throw my empties in a box when I'm done and don’t rinse). After an Oxyclean soak I dump out the gunk form the bottle and check the bottom of the bottle to make sure there's no visible signs of dirt.

I then fill a bottling bucket with Iodophor solution and soak bottles for a few minutes. Then remove and fill within a few minutes to make sure it doesn’t dry out. I also soak the bottling siphons, tubes and fillers.

The only thing I've noticed is a small buildup in the racking cane of residue that Oxyclean didn’t get rid of. This Last bottling day I did go in with a small wire brush to clean it. Other than that the only dirt I've ever seen was in the bottles before cleaning.

Does the gusher bug contamination only happen at bottling time?

 

[Misplaced_Canuck]

Do you taste the product every time you transfer it? That way, if you know that you have a good product at bottling time, you can narrow it down to the bottling process forward.

Iodophor is a good sanitizer, but it's not as quick/powerful as a bleach solution. If you have gunk in the bottles (that's removed with oxyclean), you may not have a strong enough sanitizing solution.

The source of the gunk in bottles is usually caused by not rinsing the bottle after you've consumed the product. Fill part way up, put thumb on the hole, shake vigorously, dump, repeat at least once.

MC

 

[TNGabe]

Bottling. Rinse all bottles in OXyclean for a good hour or so to get labels off and clean up gunk in bottles. This is where I think the problem may occur. A lot of bottles have moldy junk at the bottom (I usually throw my empties in a box when I'm done and don’t rinse). After an Oxyclean soak I dump out the gunk form the bottle and check the bottom of the bottle to make sure there's no visible signs of dirt.

Sounds like you answered your own question. Are you just soaking them or do you have a bottle 'washer' for your faucet?

 

[MachineShopBrewing]

Racking to secondary - I clean the racking cane and tube in oxyclean, same with secondary fermentor.

You sanitize these, right?


Are you running a bottle brush in your bottles?

The only thing I've noticed is a small buildup in the racking cane of residue that Oxyclean didn’t get rid of. This Last bottling day I did go in with a small wire brush to clean it. Other than that the only dirt I've ever seen was in the bottles before cleaning.

You can't have any dirt. You have to be absolutely clean before sanitizing.


How old is your bottling bucket? May be time to replace. Do you have a spigot on it? Do you take that all the way apart each time and clean it?

Do you leave the lid off the bucket while bottling?

 

[wileaway]

I've had this problem in the past so I feel your pain.

You seem to have identified that the reused bottles are a good candidate for contamination--especially if you aren't rinsing them. Easy fix for that one. All the oxy in the world won't help if you're storing them with layers of gunk and mold in the bottom.

I would add that the spigot of the bottling bucket should be taken apart every time after bottling as it is a great place for nasties to hide. Be wary of using abrasive brushes on plastic parts because they can cause deep scratches, which you want to avoid. Severely scratched plastic parts can lead to persistent infections.

I agree that tasting when doing your gravity readings will help you identify when the infection is occurring.

 

[Eddiebosox]

You sanitize these, right?


Are you running a bottle brush in your bottles?



You can't have any dirt. You have to be absolutely clean before sanitizing.


How old is your bottling bucket? May be time to replace. Do you have a spigot on it? Do you take that all the way apart each time and clean it?

Do you leave the lid off the bucket while bottling?

No brush, just visual inspection. bottling bucket is pretty old, but its always visibly clean and free of marks. This last time I did remove the spigot and clean it pretty thoroughly.

 

[mdgagne]

A few suggestions:
1. I stopped using a bottling bucket because I'm not confident in the ability to sanitize the valve. Instead I put a bottling wand an a racking cane, rack to another bucket, and bottle off the cane. I actually find this method faster because i put all by sanitized bottles in a container and fill them quickly.
2. If there is gunk anyone on your racking cane/tubing just replace it. The cost of replacement is cheaper than a case of beer.
3. This may be a controversial statement; but I think PBW does a better job of cleaning than oxyclean does. It also leaves less residue when items dry. The residue itself doesn't bother me but the doubt that its not oxy residue and gunk is.
4. You didn't explicitly say that you were sanitizing your racking cane, make sure you do that.
5. If the cleanliness of your bottles is in question, try a case of new bottles or heat sanitize (either in an oven or in boiling water) and a case of bottles clean/sanitized with your normal method to see if there is a difference. Heat sanitizing should sufficiently disinfect your bottles even if there is gunk; however the sanitized gunk might still taste bad.

 

[Eddiebosox]

I've had this problem in the past so I feel your pain.

You seem to have identified that the reused bottles are a good candidate for contamination--especially if you aren't rinsing them. Easy fix for that one. All the oxy in the world won't help if you're storing them with layers of gunk and mold in the bottom.

I would add that the spigot of the bottling bucket should be taken apart every time after bottling as it is a great place for nasties to hide. Be wary of using abrasive brushes on plastic parts because they can cause deep scratches, which you want to avoid. Severely scratched plastic parts can lead to persistent infections.

I agree that tasting when doing your gravity readings will help you identify when the infection is occurring.

the gushers are always as a result of a secondary bottle fermentation. I always get that telltale ring at the liquid volume line indicating a small secondary krausen has happened and the resulting beer has an acidic off taste to it. still drinkable, but nothing id ever give to others or show at a home brew meeting.

I've stopped racking to secondary completely to minimize the risk on that side of things.

if you guys see gunk on the bottom of a bottle do you bother cleaning it or just throw it out right then an there?

Also, some of the bottles I've soaked in oxyclean a long time have a light white film on it that wont go away. should i dump those too?

 

[Eddiebosox]

You sanitize these, right?



Do you leave the lid off the bucket while bottling?

usually yes. Sometimes i cover it with the lid. I suspect its my bottles aren't getting sufficiently cleaned, but sometimes entire batches come through as infected so i think maybe it wasn't just the bottles since youd think one or two would be OK.

 

[Eddiebosox]

Sounds like you answered your own question. Are you just soaking them or do you have a bottle 'washer' for your faucet?

my faucet doesn't have the ability to add a washer to it, so i just soak with oxyclean and visibly inspect it to see that there's no visible gunk left.

 

[MachineShopBrewing]

My advice would be as follows-

1. Get a new bottling bucket. Cheap enough and not worth the risk. Replace every year or so unless you brew a lot, then more often.

2. Get a bottle brush and use it liberally.

3. Rinse your bottles immediately after you pour them.

4. If you question the the cleanliness or sanitation on anything-replace it or take extra time to clean it thoroughly.

5. Star San.

6. If you are bottling with the lid off your bottling bucket, then you are letting anything and everything fall into your beer. The fact that you are doing this makes me question your entire cold side process. I would start from the kettle and look at every process and ask yourself if there are any gaps where some "bugs" could get in.

 

[Hopper5000]

If you want to be really safe then I would get all new plastic and rubber that touches the beer. You might have something imbedded somewhere that will be impossible to get out if you don't do this.

I agree with everyone that a bottling brish is a must and if there's a bunch of gunk on the bottom just throw the bottles away IMHO.

If you really want to determine if it's the bottles then go to your LHBS and but new bottles (ahould be about 12 dollars for 24 twelve ozers), if you don't get gushers then it's you bottles that are the problem. If you do still get gushers then it's your equipment or some other sanitation practice.

If there's gink building up in your bottling wand that's not hops and trub from the fermentation then you are not cleaning your stuff well enough.

Be careful using bottle brushes on plastic as they can scratch it and harbour bacteria in the scratches.

Just because you can't see it doesn't mean its not there.

 

[Eddiebosox]

I bottle in my downstairs bathroom (don’t worry, I don’t use it for that..) which is usually pretty clean, but I've had it from carboys as well that have no large openings. Here are some actions I'll take:

• Buy a new bottling bucket
• Fully clean, with brush and PBW (not oxyclean) my siphon, racking cane, bottle washer, etc
• Throw out any and all bottles that have any moldy buildup. I won't even attempt to clean them anymore


One thing i did read on morebeers site:

We recommend using a bucket no more than five times for fermentation purposes do to the vulnerability.

Ive been using the same buckets for years....