Show me your pre chiller

[OrdinaryAvgGuy]

After having little success cooling my wort to pitching temp a couple weeks back, I have decided that it's time to invest in a prechiller.

Now, I did a bit of searching here and on Google and it seems as if many agree that the most efficient and cost effective (given the price of copper) method to create a pre chiller is to fill a bucket, cooler, or some other vessel with ice and water then use a pond pump to recirculate salted water through your IC. Most suggest cooling using tap water until the wort is 90° to 100° prior to switching over to the prechiller.

I am in the process of designing a pre-chiller using this concept but could use a some ideas.

Lets see what you got!

 

[Hopper5000]

I bought one from morebeer, it's a 25Ft 1/2IN coil and I put it into a bucket of ice water. I switch over to the pre chiller when I hit 120F. I have an IC that is 50FT and 1/2IN in the kettle. With fairly consistent agitation of both (so a cooler thermal layer doesn't for around the chillers) I can get 5 gal down to about 75ish in 15min.

 

[E_Marquez]

Forget the salt.. the concentration needed to be effective in not worth the pain and cost.

And it's just not needed.
212 to sub 70 in under 18 min, Texas summer heat.. 30ft prechiller in tall cooler full of ice and water (18lb ice in cube, 3 frozen 1/2 gallon jugs is what I use to cool 4 gal of wort).. Pond pump submerged in ice water, pushing through prechiller to chiller...
return water to the ground or recover as you like (mine goes in the dog pools)

Fresh tap water into the ice bucket at the same flow rate as your chosen pump pushes.

Stirring the wort to get the hot wort moving past the chiller coils is a key to making it work. (mine is 30ft version form Austin brew supply , but re-bent to a much larger diameter to fit my pot)

 

[OrdinaryAvgGuy]

Forget the salt.. the concentration needed to be effective in not worth the pain and cost.

And it's just not needed.
212 to sub 70 in under 18 min, Texas summer heat.. 30ft prechiller in tall cooler full of ice and water (18lb ice in cube, 3 frozen 1/2 gallon jugs is what I use to cool 4 gal of wort).. Pond pump submerged in ice water, pushing through prechiller to chiller...
return water to the ground or recover as you like (mine goes in the dog pools)

Fresh tap water into the ice bucket at the same flow rate as your chosen pump pushes.

Stirring the wort to get the hot wort moving past the chiller coils is a key to making it work. (mine is 30ft version form Austin brew supply , but re-bent to a much larger diameter to fit my pot)

Interesting. So you prechill your prechiller water before going to your chiller...

 

[Beernik]

I made myself a new and improved IC and turned my old IC into a prechiller. I stick it in a 6 gallon bucket with 20lbs of ice and turn on the hose.

 

[govner1]

I used a pre-chiller in a bucket w/ ice water and pond pump very successfully for about 9 months but I was wasting a lot of water. So, I got a larger submersible pump on sale @ Harbor Freight and use it to recirculate the chilled water, adding more ice as needed. Even whirl pooling I can get to 64 in about 15 min.

 

[E_Marquez]

Interesting. So you prechill your prechiller water before going to your chiller...

I suppose I do... for no other reason than.. I already have the prechiller .. and it would be reasonable to assume.. water in ice, run though the pump, and though 25ft of copper tube in ice water may come down a few deg vs just drawing from tap water infused ice water.

If I did not already have the prechiller.... I'd not buy one for use in a system like we are talking about... But hey, what else am I going to do with that copper coil

 

[Mongrel]

Here is one of them:

Tap water doesn't get above 45 degrees, ever.

 

[thisisbeer]

Pound pump is great. It is quicker then using a pre chiller and the harbor freight pump is cheaper as well. I have just started this method and used it once. It took two 20 pound bags of ice to go from 212 to 64 in about 15 mins. It is my new favorite method with tap water being in the 90's.

 

[OrdinaryAvgGuy]

Pound pump is great. It is quicker then using a pre chiller and the harbor freight pump is cheaper as well. I have just started this method and used it once. It took two 20 pound bags of ice to go from 212 to 64 in about 15 mins. It is my new favorite method with tap water being in the 90's.

I'm assuming that 40lbs of ice are for a 10 gallon batch?

 

[OrdinaryAvgGuy]

Here is one of them:

Tap water doesn't get above 45 degrees, ever.

But your 2800 miles from me.. That would be one hell of a long hose! Plus it would likely reach 90+ degrees very quickly going across state lines.

 

[OrdinaryAvgGuy]

Picked up this gem at HF - 200 GPH for only $11! This will give me +-3.3 GPM. Sounds about right.

 

[thisisbeer]

No 5.5 gallon. I guess I should have elaborated. I put the pump in an ice chest with 40 pounds of ice and water. I still had plenty of ice at the end. Im sure you could get by with 20 or less and I will use that next time.

I was just typing what I used. Didn't think much of it at the time.

 

[thisisbeer]

O and the pumps are not made to push water through 50' of copper tubing so expect flow to be a lot less than 3.3 gpm. At least mine was pretty slow. I only pumped 10 gallons in 15 minutes. But that isn't a bad thing I was at 64 degrees in 15 minutes, which I thought was pretty good considering how far the temp dropped. Im not sure if your pump will be the same. Just a heads up.

 

[Clonefan94]

Picked up this gem at HF - 200 GPH for only $11! This will give me +-3.3 GPM. Sounds about right.

This is what I use:

1/6 HP submersible pump. I already had it from when we used to have a pool, to drain the water on the cover in the spring. Probably overkill, but it works like a charm. Plus, it's already set to just use normal garden hose hook up, which my chillers are all set to use. Definitely not cheap either, but like I said, I already had it and living in the midwest, with a basement, it's a multipurpose device.

 

[OrdinaryAvgGuy]

O and the pumps are not made to push water through 50' of copper tubing so expect flow to be a lot less than 3.3 gpm. At least mine was pretty slow. I only pumped 10 gallons in 15 minutes. But that isn't a bad thing I was at 64 degrees in 15 minutes, which I thought was pretty good considering how far the temp dropped. Im not sure if your pump will be the same. Just a heads up.

Thanks for the info. I'll have to do a little experimenting with my pump and IC.

 

[OrdinaryAvgGuy]

This is what I use:

1/6 HP submersible pump. I already had it from when we used to have a pool, to drain the water on the cover in the spring. Probably overkill, but it works like a charm. Plus, it's already set to just use normal garden hose hook up, which my chillers are all set to use. Definitely not cheap either, but like I said, I already had it and living in the midwest, with a basement, it's a multipurpose device.

If its the same pump that I looked up online, it has a flow rate just shy of 1500 GPH! Sounds like it would have no problem getting the job done.

 

[OrdinaryAvgGuy]

O and the pumps are not made to push water through 50' of copper tubing so expect flow to be a lot less than 3.3 gpm. At least mine was pretty slow. I only pumped 10 gallons in 15 minutes. But that isn't a bad thing I was at 64 degrees in 15 minutes, which I thought was pretty good considering how far the temp dropped. Im not sure if your pump will be the same. Just a heads up.

I tested the flow using my HF 200 GPH pump. Both the IC and bucket with pump were at approx the same level.

Not hooked up to my chiller = 3.33 GPM or 200 GPH - As advertised.

Hooked up to 50' 3/8" chiller = 0.5 GPM or 30 GPH! What a difference.

I suppose at this rate it will take 20 mins to pump the 10 gallons (as you did) instead of 15 mins. Perhaps you picked up a slightly more powerful model.

You cooled from 212 to 64 degrees in 15 mins. Did you first get the temp down by running water from the tap and dumping then switching over to recirculating or did you just recirculated water with 40lbs of ice from the start?

This leaves me to wonder... Is it better to go with a slow trickle of 0.5 GPM, giving the recirculating water more time to absorb the heat from the copper and more time for the ice to chill the water before being recirculated? Or is it better to pump the water through faster?

 

[thisisbeer]

I started out with ice water. I didn't see a need in cooling slower with tap water. The speed at which the water is flowing does effect the cooling to a point. But faster does not necessarily mean better. The cold water will only get as hot as the wort is. The best senario is the cold water hits the hottest wort temp (210f) at the end of the 50' run. That would be your fastest cooling method, but not most efficient in terms of water. If you push water any faster than that your cooling at the same rate and just wasting water. I like that I can use only 10 gallons and cool to pitching temps in 15 minutes. I brew in my kitchen so its easy to dump two 5 gallon buckets in the back yard. I wouldn't focus on GPM there are other ways to help out to like OD size of the chiller will allow more water to absorb more heat.

 

[OrdinaryAvgGuy]

I started out with ice water. I didn't see a need in cooling slower with tap water. The speed at which the water is flowing does effect the cooling to a point. But faster does not necessarily mean better. The cold water will only get as hot as the wort is. The best senario is the cold water hits the hottest wort temp (210f) at the end of the 50' run. That would be your fastest cooling method, but not most efficient in terms of water. If you push water any faster than that your cooling at the same rate and just wasting water. I like that I can use only 10 gallons and cool to pitching temps in 15 minutes. I brew in my kitchen so its easy to dump two 5 gallon buckets in the back yard. I wouldn't focus on GPM there are other ways to help out to like OD size of the chiller will allow more water to absorb more heat.

I'm not overly concerned with wasting water, although if I can prevent wastefulness in a costly manner I will do so.

It would be interesting to know the cost of wasting water (city water with waste water fees) vs. buying a ton of ice and recirculating. My guess would be that dumping water for the first 10 mins and switching to recirculating the last 5-10 mins would be cheaper because it would require the use of less ice.

Then again, I may be wrong.

I'm brewing a batch next week and plan to try my HF 1/2gal min pump. Anyone know about how much ice I should buy if I plan to run tap water then recirculate ice water? 10lbs? 20lbs?

 

[E_Marquez]

. Anyone know about how much ice I should buy if I plan to run tap water then recirculate ice water? 10lbs? 20lbs?

I make my own ice, both cubed and 1/2 gallon sized..
But when I cool a 5.25 gal batch in Texas summer heat I use 3-4 1/2 gal blocks and 15 pounds of cubed.

 

[thisisbeer]

Price wasn't my concern just moving 10 gallons outside to dump it is easier than moving 20 gallons. 40 pounds of ice is about 3 bucks and either way 30 or ten gallons of water is pretty cheap. like you said your looking at 10 gallons in 20 minutes and will probably be at pitching temps by then. I would put my beer first and just dump the 10 gallons and get to pitching temps as fast as you can.You could always change later if you think it's best for your setup. When it comes down to a 5 bucks or so I do whats best for the beer. That being said I can't imagine how much I would save if I just bought commercial beer. But thats not the point of this hobby.

 

[OrdinaryAvgGuy]

I make my own ice, both cubed and 1/2 gallon sized..
But when I cool a 5.25 gal batch in Texas summer heat I use 3-4 1/2 gal blocks and 15 pounds of cubed.

Nice. Care to share how you make the half gallon cubes? Cut the top off a 1/2 gal milk jug and freeze? How do you get the block out?

 

[Demus]

The rate of cooling is relative to the difference in temperature of the wort and supply water. Even warm ground water (mine's Florida) chills boiling wort pretty fast initially. Once the temperature difference narrows to 20 or 30 degrees, the rate of cooling slows. That's when I switch to a pre chiller setup. This way I don't need much ice; the contents of my ice maker does the trick (about a third of a 5 gallon bucket). I tried it with the ice right away and it was all melted before I got to 150. Of you've got access to large quantities of ice for short money, by all means ice it all the way. But the method I described keeps you from lugging cumbersome and fairly expensive ice bags from the market, and probably works about as well...

 

[Demus]

By the way, I use a plate chiller, with an immersion chiller/pond pump combo for a pre chiller...

 

[OrdinaryAvgGuy]

By the way, I use a plate chiller, with an immersion chiller/pond pump combo for a pre chiller...

E_Marquez also uses an immersion chiller with a pond pump for his pre chiller. Do you believe that using a IC with your pre chill setup makes a notable difference when it comes to cooling the water or do you use it just because you had it and wanted to put it to use?

 

[Demus]

E_Marquez also uses an immersion chiller with a pond pump for his pre chiller. Do you believe that using a IC with your pre chill setup makes a notable difference when it comes to cooling the water or do you use it just because you had it and wanted to put it to use?

It makes a huge difference for me, especially in the summer when ground water temps get well into the 80's. Again, it's about the difference in temp between the supply water and the wort. If you have naturally cool supply water, you may not see much benefit with a pre chiller setup

 

[OrdinaryAvgGuy]

It makes a huge difference for me, especially in the summer when ground water temps get well into the 80's. Again, it's about the difference in temp between the supply water and the wort. If you have naturally cool supply water, you may not see much benefit with a pre chiller setup

I mean why use a IM in conjunction with your pond pump? Do you think pumping iced water directly to your plate chiller is just as effective?

 

[jbaysurfer]

40lbs of ice is 3 bucks? Wow. I don't think I could make it myself for that price. Guess life is more expensive around here, though I kinda already knew that unfortunately...

I just run hose water through to 90F, then switch to the pond pump/ice water. 20 lbs. of ice, 20-25 minutes of cool time. I use the runoff water for cleaning until it's more tepid, then I water some plants with it. I bet I don't use more then 15G of tap water altogether...but I do have a garden and a yard so it's never wasted.

Also, I do own a 2nd chiller, but it leaks and it's kinda a pain to work with. Some folks on this forum convinced me I didn't need it, and once I got my pond pump setup (cheapo chinese made, but not the HF one..got it from Orchard Supply Hardware) I realized they were right.

 

[OrdinaryAvgGuy]

40lbs of ice is 3 bucks? Wow. I don't think I could make it myself for that price. Guess life is more expensive around here, though I kinda already knew that unfortunately...

Where I'm at the cheapest ice around is at Mcdonald's. They sell 10lb bags (technically around 8-9 lbs) for $1.