Should i delay brew day to make a starter?

[bigskygreg]

You guys are great. I appreciate all the feedback. I decided to pick up a second smack pack. Extra trip to LHBS, but I think worth it. I will plan better next time, but should be good to go now. I'm lucky I happened to be by LHBS, not my usual one, but seemed like a great place. I will be back. I'm pretty lucky to have a few choices within 30 minutes.

Cheers!

 

[k_mcarthur]

You guys are great. I appreciate all the feedback. I decided to pick up a second smack pack. Extra trip to LHBS, but I think worth it. I will plan better next time, but should be good to go now. I'm lucky I happened to be by LHBS, not my usual one, but seemed like a great place. I will be back. I'm pretty lucky to have a few choices within 30 minutes.

Cheers!

Glad to hear. Cheers!

 

[Yooper]

Thanks guys. I think I will press my luck and direct pitch my smack pack. Next time I'll be sure to make the starter like always. I was lazy and wasn't 100% sure I was going to brew. Next time I'll remember that if I make the starter, then don't brew, I can always cold crash for a few days.

Thanks again!

I'm late to the party, but you had enough time to make a starter with yeast that is only 30 days old. While not ideal, I've had my starters get cranking really well in 6 hours, and you could have pitched at high krausen more than likely. Even if not, it was something.

You guys are great. I appreciate all the feedback. I decided to pick up a second smack pack. Extra trip to LHBS, but I think worth it. I will plan better next time, but should be good to go now. I'm lucky I happened to be by LHBS, not my usual one, but seemed like a great place. I will be back. I'm pretty lucky to have a few choices within 30 minutes.

Cheers!

The second package of yeast solved all the problems- good to go!

 

[kombat]

I have done it [starter] without a stirplate and find it to be a hassle. If you let it sit for more than 15 minutes there is clear separation between yeast and wort.

So? That doesn't mean the yeast isn't working! When you pitch the yeast into your main batch of beer, do you swirl the carboy every 10-15 minutes to try and keep the yeast from settling to the bottom? No, of course not.

The shaking/swirling of the starter is to knock the dissolved CO2 out of solution and mix in more oxygen, to assist the yeast in multiplying. But if you've thoroughly aerated the starter wort initially, there should still be plenty of oxygen in solution for them to complete their reproductive cycle, even if you only get around to swirling/shaking it every few hours.

you even said yourself a stirplate speeds things up a lot so if it normally takes 2-3 days on a stirplate, im not about to slosh yeast for a week straight!

As someone else pointed out, a starter on a stir plate is usually completely finished within 24 hours. But even without a stir plate, it should finish and be ready for cold-crashing or pitching after 3 days, at most.

I make big beers always, and that's what I use. One pack dry. Sprinkle on the wort

If you're happy with your beer, then that's all that matters, but for the benefit of newcomer brewers who might be reading this, I feel compelled to point out that you are wildly underpitching your beers, and that as good as they may be, they could be even better if you pitched the proper amount of yeast.

One dry pack of yeast, properly rehydrated, is enough for 5 gallons of moderate gravity (1.040) ale wort. However, you said you "always" make big beers, which would connote that one pack is insufficient, and you should be pitching more. Furthermore, you're sprinkling the dry yeast directly onto the wort instead of rehydrating it, which according to the book "Yeast" (White/Zainasheff) results in only roughly half of the yeast surviving.

AS RECOMMENDED BY SAFEALE

Safale is the product line, Fermentis is the company. And they do in fact recommend rehydrating it in water, as described here, in the product information sheet.

Sprinkle the yeast in minimum 10 times its weight of sterile water or wort at 27°C ± 3°C (80°F ± 6°F). Leave to rest 15 to 30 minutes.
Gently stir for 30 minutes, and pitch the resultant cream into the fermentation vessel.

They do describe an alternate procedure of sprinkling it into the wort dry, but the preferred procedure is rehydration. Research demonstrates that you achieve higher yeast viability using rehydration. The "direct sprinkling" method is intended for inexperienced brewers, to not scare them away. It is not portrayed as the ideal method, much like the instructions on Coopers brewing kits are not the ideal method for brewing the best possible beer using their kits.

 

[MooMan]

I've found myself in this situation before due to poor planning, or shear laziness. Rather than use just the smack pack and most likely under pitch, I decided to brew anyway and let the final batch sit in the carboy until the yeast starter was ready. IMO, the final boiled wort is in a clean environment (if done properly) and should be isolated from infection until you're ready to pitch. When the starter was finished ~2 days post brewing, I aerated the wort in the carboy and pitched as usual. At this point, the wort had already stabilized temperature and now, thanks to aeration, had a fresh supply of O2 for the happy yeast. Fermentation kicked up as usual and the beer turned out perfectly fine (there was also no noticeable oxidation from the O2 in the headspace). I've done this about 3 times and have had no adverse reactions.

Just my humble opinion.

 

[austinb]

You guys are great. I appreciate all the feedback. I decided to pick up a second smack pack. Extra trip to LHBS, but I think worth it. I will plan better next time, but should be good to go now. I'm lucky I happened to be by LHBS, not my usual one, but seemed like a great place. I will be back. I'm pretty lucky to have a few choices within 30 minutes.

Cheers!

That was actually a great idea, two fresh smack packs should yield close to the 200 billion cells you need. I don't know why nobody in this thread thought of that.

In the future if you don't have time for a starter but you also don't want to spend $15 on two smack packs dry yeast is a great option for only $3-4 a pack. Between danstar and fermentis you actually have quite a few options if your brewshop carries them. You can get dry yeast for American ales, English ales, lagers, hefeweizens, Belgians and danstar even makes a dry Saison yeast. Many old school brewers are still hesitant to use them and will tell you liquid yeast is better but manufacturing processes for dry yeast have really improved and dry yeast is very good yeast now. In my opinion spending $7 on WLP 001 or Wyeast 1056 which is the same strain as US-05 is just spending another few bucks for the same exact thing, kind of pointless.

 

[kombat]

In my opinion spending $7 on WLP 001 or Wyeast 1056 which is the same strain as US-05 is just spending another few bucks for the same exact thing, kind of pointless.

In my experience, I've always had a much faster start to fermentation when using the liquid yeast (from a starter, obviously) as opposed to the dry yeast. Some of my dry yeast pitches (rehydrated, of course) have taken over 2 days to show signs of life, but whenever I've pitched liquid yeast from a starter, I've always had a visible krausen within 24 hours.

 

[kh54s10]

That was actually a great idea, two fresh smack packs should yield close to the 200 billion cells you need. I don't know why nobody in this thread thought of that.

In my opinion spending $7 on WLP 001 or Wyeast 1056 which is the same strain as US-05 is just spending another few bucks for the same exact thing, kind of pointless.

I agree that adding another liquid 001 or 1056 when you have US05 would be a waste. But, the OP was using 1098.

In my experience, I've always had a much faster start to fermentation when using the liquid yeast (from a starter, obviously) as opposed to the dry yeast. Some of my dry yeast pitches (rehydrated, of course) have taken over 2 days to show signs of life, but whenever I've pitched liquid yeast from a starter, I've always had a visible krausen within 24 hours.

I make starters and most of them take off in 4-5 hours and all by morning.
I haven't seen much difference between a starter and re-hydrated dry yeast. And the longest with sprinkled dry yeast was on a brew that I finished at 5 pm one day and went off when I was at work the next day, good activity before 24 hours.

I guess I am due for a worry when it takes several days to start fermentation.
I also wonder when I will brew a bad batch? I am at 43 batches and not a bad one among them. Hope my luck keeps going.

 

[k_mcarthur]

I didn't do any starters my whole first year of brewing, still made fine beer then. If time is the main constraint I would just pitch the smack pack, just expect delayed start to fermentation but since you'll be out of town then it won't really matter. I usually don't brew anymore if I don't have my starter ready, but in this case I'd probably just go ahead and brew. Dry yeast is a good idea, no starter needed, but if you go to the LHBS just pick up another smack pack. Pitching two packs is same as a starter.

That suggestion was made, if you read the whole thread. Austinb

 

[austinb]

That suggestion was made, if you read the whole thread. Austinb

I thought I had read it all but I guess I missed that. It was definitely probably the best solution since he already had one smack pack. If he didn't have the yeast already the dry yeast would probably be better because its $3-4 for 200 billion cells compared to $14-16 for 200 billion with 2 smack packs.

Honestly I don't know why the liquid yeast manufacturers don't make 200 billion cell packs and sell them for a few more bucks so that people who don't want to bother with a starter can get a proper pitch rate right out of the smack pack or vial.