Should I adjust my water or just use bottled?

[Jordan Logo]

As I dive deeper and deeper into this hobby I’m starting to explore the world of homebrew water chemistry.

How many of you guys/gals actually adjust your water chemistry? And if so 1 - how do you decide what to add for your specific beer? 2 - do you start with RO water as a clean slate then add?

3 - Also, if you don’t adjust your water, do you use your tap or do you buy gallon bottles (what brand)?

Thanks for all the help!

 

[SoCal-Doug]

Start here: https://sites.google.com/site/brunwater/water-knowledge

I think you'll find everything you are looking for within that document.

But the answer in short is... Do you have to think about and apply water chemistry to brew beer? Absolutely not. Can you get to the point of making great beers without it? Absolutely not.

 

[Kickass]

Water is intimidating at first but it’s not too complicated and makes all the difference.

Bru’n water is incredible and there are YouTube and online tutorial helpers out there. I adjust my water but it seems like many use RO.

Do your beers, yourself and your homebrew drinking leaches (what I call my friends) a favor, invest time in making your water ideal

 

[SoCal-Doug]

I start with RO then use bru-n-water to calculate the chemical additions. I have zero faith in beersmith's chemistry, especially when it comes to pH. Water from municipal water sources change with the seasons and to me, its more of a pain in the butt to guess what the starting water has, then adjust it, and get rid of chlorine and chloramine. With RO, you have a clean blank slate to begin with.

With RO and some very basic additions, along with getting a proper mash pH (yes, you'll need a meter), your beer quality will skyrocket (as long as your other procedures and methods aren't degrading the quality)

 

[camonick]

I started BIAB right after Christmas and jumped straight into water adjustments at the same time. I had my well water tested by Ward Labs before I started. I use Bru'n Water and adjust each recipe according to style. I dilute my well water with RO and adjust the % dilution, brewing salt adjustments and 88% lactic acid until I closely match the desired water profile. It works because I know my well water parameters and have them programmed into Bru'n Water. Starting with 100% RO or distilled is also a very good way to do it if you don't know the information of your well/tap water.

 

[Jordan Logo]

I start with RO then use bru-n-water to calculate the chemical additions. I have zero faith in beersmith's chemistry, especially when it comes to pH. Water from municipal water sources change with the seasons and to me, its more of a pain in the butt to guess what the starting water has, then adjust it, and get rid of chlorine and chloramine. With RO, you have a clean blank slate to begin with.

With RO and some very basic additions, along with getting a proper mash pH (yes, you'll need a meter), your beer quality will skyrocket (as long as your other procedures and methods aren't degrading the quality)

What meter would you suggest? Any good options under $100?

 

[SoCal-Doug]

What meter would you suggest? Any good options under $100?

I use a Milwaukee 102. It was about $120 I think. Excellent meter. I would defer to others on the forum for meters that might be cheaper. I'm sure there are other great meters on the market. It's an important brewing tool that should last many years if treated well.

Don't forget to order calibration solutions (liquid 7 and 4) and probe storage solution. Always rinse your probe with distilled water before and after use and always store the probe in the storage solution! The probe tip is like hard gel, if it gets dried out or damaged, its over and will need to be replaced.

Shop around. Amazon can sometimes save a few bucks over the LHBS.

 

[Jordan Logo]

I use a Milwaukee 102. It was about $120 I think. Excellent meter. I would defer to others on the forum for meters that might be cheaper. I'm sure there are other great meters on the market. It's an important brewing tool that should last many years if treated well.

Don't forget to order calibration solutions (liquid 7 and 4) and probe storage solution. Always rinse your probe with distilled water before and after use and always store the probe in the storage solution! The probe tip is like hard gel, if it gets dried out or damaged, its over and will need to be replaced.

Shop around. Amazon can sometimes save a few bucks over the LHBS.

I was also looking at BeerSmith's water calculator and didn't actually see a box for pH... is this a mistake, or are the additions of other chemicals already accounting for this? Also, why don't you trust BeerSmith?

Lastly, I've looked on amazon and found a pH meter for super cheap... Whats the difference between an expensive and cheap one?

 

[SoCal-Doug]

pH is something that may need to be adjusted with lactic or phosphoric acid, after you set your water chemistry parameters and enter your grains. pH and pH adjustments are in the mash tab in beersmith 3. The whole objective is to mash at a pH of 5.2 to 5.6 (I always shoot for about 5.35), end your sparge before the runnings get above 5.8, and boil at a pH of 5.6 to 5.7 (one small facet if you are really OCD about clarity). pH meters are handy for validating your recipe, plan, and brewing, and adjusting on the fly if needed.

Using beersmith 2 and 3, over a bazillion batches, beersmith has never come up with the same water numbers as bru-n-water and its pH calculations are in some other galaxy compared to other calculators (there's even an online calculator that is more accurate than beersmith). Bru-n-water's pH estimates and recommended acid additions are dead nuts on what I measure live during brewing.

From what i've found, whatever beersmith tells you to add for acid, cut that number in half. Then test it with your meter and add a tiny bit more if needed. But you have to work fast because most of the starch conversion happens in the beginning of the mash process. Thats why other calculators are so nice. They are accurate from the start. pH's for recipes with high quantities of pilsner malts are beyond stupidly off in beersmith (I do a lot of styles that use pilsner base malts)

Definitely read through that link I replied with earlier. It's has some excellent information and how all this chemistry nonsense works and why and how to apply it.

 

[Jordan Logo]

pH is something that may need to be adjusted with lactic or phosphoric acid, after you set your water chemistry parameters and enter your grains. pH and pH adjustments are in the mash tab in beersmith 3. The whole objective is to mash at a pH of 5.2 to 5.6 (I always shoot for about 5.35), end your sparge before the runnings get above 5.8, and boil at a pH of 5.6 to 5.7 (one small facet if you are really OCD about clarity). pH meters are handy for validating your recipe, plan, and brewing, and adjusting on the fly if needed.

Using beersmith 2 and 3, over a bazillion batches, beersmith has never come up with the same water numbers as bru-n-water and its pH calculations are in some other galaxy compared to other calculators (there's even an online calculator that is more accurate than beersmith). Bru-n-water's pH estimates and recommended acid additions are dead nuts on what I measure live during brewing.

From what i've found, whatever beersmith tells you to add for acid, cut that number in half. Then test it with your meter and add a tiny bit more if needed. But you have to work fast because most of the starch conversion happens in the beginning of the mash process. Thats why other calculators are so nice. They are accurate from the start. pH's for recipes with high quantities of pilsner malts are beyond stupidly off in beersmith (I do a lot of styles that use pilsner base malts)

Definitely read through that link I replied with earlier. It's has some excellent information and how all this chemistry nonsense works and why and how to apply it.

Would I be able to use BrunWater to adjust my starting RO water before I add my grains? I honestly don’t want to make the brewing process too complicated and have to check my brew every second. Also, is there a table as to what the water chemistry is for each style of beer?

 

[McKnuckle]

If BrunWater is “dead nuts” accurate every time, then why not skip the hassle of live pH measurements on brew day? Just use the software and trust its estimate to be at least very close.

 

[Jag75]

Check out the beverage dr . It only cost me around 60$ . Works great so far

 

[Lefou]

The NJ tap water run through a carbon filter is fine to drink by my tastes but isn't sufficient for brew water. I will purchase several gallons of soft water and adjust for mashing to brew beer. When I first started out I used the filtered tap water and extract. That made an acceptable first beer but not great. That kind of water doesn't play well with phenolic yeast and higher AAU hops.
I decided to use soft water and noble hops with milder ale or lager yeast and the beer improved markedly. It's not worth it to me to install an RO system because my brewing activity doesn't yield a lot of volume, so an occasional trip to the store for six or seven gallons of water isn't relatively expensive. One batch typically runs me $30 or less with fresh liquid yeast and the water is about one-third of the total because I get a good price on grain.

 

[TasunkaWitko]

This spring water has been used for every beer I have brewed. I used to live at the location, and it is wonderful stuff:

http://bigspringwater.com/

Is it "proper?" I don't know - here is a breakdown:

http://bigspringwater.com/about-us

I've been told that the bicarbonate level is pretty high, but in all honesty I have not had a bad beer yet from it, so I keep using it.

 

[Lefou]

If BrunWater is “dead nuts” accurate every time, then why not skip the hassle of live pH measurements on brew day? Just use the software and trust its estimate to be at least very close.

For light SRM beers I simply add 3 oz of sauermalz and adjust the calcium in the mash to 50-100ppm. I don't bother with a pH meter and the beer turns out fine, some better than most depending on the quality of the malt. Not all base malts are created the same so mashing, gravity checks, and getting an acceptable efficiency can be a bit of extra effort some days.
The starting water I adjust and mash with? Poland Spring in gallon jugs.

 

[McKnuckle]

There is definitely something to be said about finding a "formula" and repeating it. Not everything needs a spreadsheet or instrumentation. Empiricism is very valuable too.

For me, I adjust distilled water for every brew using a spreadsheet pH estimation tool. But I don't own a pH meter so I never actually measure anything. I have just learned that things turn out well when the pH estimate is between 5.3-5.5, so I go with that.

Same thing for chloride, sulfate, etc. - I have experimented a lot with different levels in different styles, and basically know how to create a profile that works from trial and error.

 

[SoCal-Doug]

If BrunWater is “dead nuts” accurate every time, then why not skip the hassle of live pH measurements on brew day?

I've thought about that. But with an E-Herms, brewing is pretty boring. It gives me something to do.

 

[balrog]

Would I be able to use BrunWater to adjust my starting RO water before I add my grains? I honestly don’t want to make the brewing process too complicated and have to check my brew every second. Also, is there a table as to what the water chemistry is for each style of beer?

Read the article mentioned. Also there is a nice sticky here.

To your question--you typically add the "salts" to the mash water (liquor) prior to mashing in so that the water has the stuff ready when you add your grains, which adds more ions/cations to the mix. Then you wait 30m and take a sample, cool to 77°F, measure pH and see where it is ---TO BE USED NEXT TIME because it is already too late to do anything about pH now.

But don't sweat it. Read that sticky, don't get hung up on sweating it yet.

 

[WBB]

I’ve thought about sending my water to ward, but it only tells you a snapshot. The profile could change throughout the year. And then what you think you’re starting out with, you not.

I’ve been using distilled until I get an RO system. And I just use the free online calcs to adjust what salts I need to add based on the profile and use acidulated malt to get the ph in line. Can I use lactic? Yes. But I already have the acidulated malt and I’m not a professional brewer...yet.

 

[ApolloSimcoe]

I adjust my water. I didn't at first but its an additional layer that has improved my beers. I used to use my town water report and adjust from there. Until I realized that they draw from multiple sources so its never the same week to week. Talk about a PIA. I found a source for R/O water that I fill up myself. Its a 14 mile round trip to get the water but at $2 for 5 gallons its not that bad.
Bru'n water can be a little overwhelming for some people at first, just take it a piece at a time and read the materials he provides. INMHO it is the best water calculator out there.

 

[HTH1975]

I’ve thought about sending my water to ward, but it only tells you a snapshot. The profile could change throughout the year. And then what you think you’re starting out with, you not.

I’ve been using distilled until I get an RO system. And I just use the free online calcs to adjust what salts I need to add based on the profile and use acidulated malt to get the ph in line. Can I use lactic? Yes. But I already have the acidulated malt and I’m not a professional brewer...yet.

You can check for alkalinity yourself which would validate your water report results. A Salivert alkalinity kit is very cheap and easy to use.