Shorten the boil?

[landoa]

I do not buy this, based on our experience. We have had beers with levels of DMS that were easily noticeable, with a 60 minute boil.
Employing a 90 minute boil has solved these problems.

If an extra 30 minutes of time is going to ruin your day, perhaps just buying a 6 pack of your favorite brew is the best answer.

Well, my favorite brew is my beer, so then I have a quandary

Seriously, I like to brew and like to test new methods that make the whole process more fun than it already is. So, that's why I threw this question out there.

Thanks for everyone's 2 cents!

 

[BrewnWKopperKat]

We have had beers with levels of DMS that were easily noticeable, with a 60 minute boil.

When I was involved (2017-2019) in regional (400+ entry) home brew competitions as a steward, one of the things that I experienced was that people have very different levels of sensitivity to off flavors (including DMS). "Can't taste DMS? We'll have you judge browns rather than lagers." And, as I mentioned earlier, there were are super-tasters.

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Brew how you like; like what you brew.

 

[VikeMan]

Just gonna put this here. "Modification" is the degree to which the grain is germinated before being halted. It has nothing at all to do with kilning. More modification doesn't result in less SMM. If anything, it could be argued that more modification could produce more SMM (unmalted grains have little to no SMM), but I haven't seen have any solid data on that. My understanding is that the important drivers of SMM levels are the type/crop of barley used (higher nitrogen correlates to higher SMM produced, 6-row produces more than 2-row, etc.), and the temperature and length of kilning.

 

[mabrungard]

If you're using a grist without any pils or lightly kilned malts, you should be able to shorten the boil time and still avoid DMS when brewing near sea level. If you reside at high-elevation, then you may have to boil longer to achieve effective DMS volatilization. The other reason that this beer can be a good candidate for short boil is that there will be a lot of roast flavor that would cover minor DMS presence anyhow. That 30 min boil should be in an open kettle. The boil doesn't need to be volcanic, but it needs to "roll" nicely.

Do recognize that a recipe intended for a typical 60 min boil time would probably need adjustment to correct the bittering and post-boil OG.

 

[CascadesBrewer]

Do you have experience with shorter boil times? What were the results?

I have been mostly moving to 30 minute boils for many recipes. I started with my hoppy beers and have been playing with moving others from 60 to 30. I have not noticed any issues or real impact. There is often a surprisingly small difference in the hop addition needed between 30 min and 60 min to get the same calculated IBUs.

A few years ago I did a number of single grain batches with 30 minutes boils, which included Weyermann Bohemian Floor Malted Pilsner in the mix. If any of those beers had DMS in them, neither I nor the number of homebrewers that tasted them detected it.

I am still a bit cautious. For a recent 100% Pilsner batch I gave it a 60 minute boil...just to be safe.

 

[Oleson M.D.]

I think we need to do 15 minute boils. That would save at least 15 minutes! Enough time to hit a few golf balls at the driving range.

 

[Kickass]

I think we need to do 15 minute boils. That would save at least 15 minutes! Enough time to hit a few golf balls at the driving range.

Knew it’d only be a matter of time before you came around to it!

 

[landoa]

Just to give an update, the Electric Pale Ale I mentioned in the original post was brewed with a 30 min boil and was excellent. Very happy with the result.

Will brew this hefeweizen this weekend: Brewfather ... so, there is 30% Pilsner. Would this be the reason to do a 60 minute boil instead of a 30? Since its not the majority of the grist, I don't think DMS will be a factor.

What would you do?

 

[Sammy86]

Just to give an update, the Electric Pale Ale I mentioned in the original post was brewed with a 30 min boil and was excellent. Very happy with the result.

Will brew this hefeweizen this weekend: Brewfather ... so, there is 30% Pilsner. Would this be the reason to do a 60 minute boil instead of a 30? Since its not the majority of the grist, I don't think DMS will be a factor.

What would you do?

I did a 30 minute mash 50/50 Pilsner to White wheat and had no issues with DMS.

Remember the malt we are using now is highly modified...the sacred 60-90 minute boil for pilsner malt is for better or worse becoming defunct.

 

[VikeMan]

Remember the malt we are using now is highly modified...the sacred 60-90 minute boil for pilsner malt is for better or worse becoming defunct.

The big drivers of DMS precursor (SMM) levels are the variety of barley used (higher nitrogen correlates to higher SMM produced, 6-row produces more than 2-row, etc.) and the degree of kilning, i.e. more kilning dives lower levels of SMM. These factors are pretty widely known.

But modification is not the same as kilning, and higher modification doesn't correlate (positively) with low SMM levels. https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1094/ASBCJ-45-0053?journalCode=ujbc20

 

[doug293cz]

The big drivers of DMS precursor (SMM) levels are the variety of barley used (higher nitrogen correlates to higher SMM produced, 6-row produces more than 2-row, etc.) and the degree of kilning, i.e. more kilning dives lower levels of SMM. These factors are pretty widely known.

But modification is not the same as kilning, and higher modification doesn't correlate (positively) with low SMM levels. https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1094/ASBCJ-45-0053?journalCode=ujbc20

According to the abstract:

"High barley protein content and good modification during malting were shown to increase levels. Indexes of malt modification revealed barleys that produced low levels of SMM under a given set of malting conditions were inferior in terms of modification."​

​

So, higher levels of modification increase levels of SMM, all else being equal. This is appears to be the opposite of what many people assume.

Brew on

 

[VikeMan]

So, higher levels of modification increase levels of SMM, all else being equal. This is appears to be the opposite of what many people assume.

For some reason, a lot of people think of modification and kilning as the same thing, and I suspect that's where the confusion originated.

Another good read on DMS (that's not behind a paywall) that gets into all the factors, is a 1982 paper by Charlie Bamforth, "DIMETHYL SULPHIDE—A REVIEW":
https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/epdf/10.1002/j.2050-0416.1982.tb04101.x

 

[Sammy86]

The big drivers of DMS precursor (SMM) levels are the variety of barley used (higher nitrogen correlates to higher SMM produced, 6-row produces more than 2-row, etc.) and the degree of kilning, i.e. more kilning dives lower levels of SMM. These factors are pretty widely known.

But modification is not the same as kilning, and higher modification doesn't correlate (positively) with low SMM levels. https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1094/ASBCJ-45-0053?journalCode=ujbc20

Interesting, can always count on you @VikeMan to drop some knowledge! Thanks for the info!

 

[BeerHolic]

Hi,

I brewed a Dry Irish Stout today - Brewfather - and boiled 30 minutes as suggested at 10m45s here:

Thinking about shortening the boil from 60 to 30 for this: Electric Pale Ale ... hop additions start late in the boil at 20 minutes. Is it a good candidate for a 30 minute boil?

Do you have experience with shorter boil times? What were the results?

I have been doing 45 minute boils for over a 150 brews with no issues, including grain bills with high amounts of Pilsner malt.

 

[landoa]

I did a 30 minute mash 50/50 Pilsner to White wheat and had no issues with DMS.

Remember the malt we are using now is highly modified...the sacred 60-90 minute boil for pilsner malt is for better or worse becoming defunct.

You did a 30 min mash and/or 30 min boil?

I thought the DMS issues were uniquely related to length of boil.

 

[cubalz]

I have done many 20-minute boils with no ill effects. I still do a full 60 for my pilsner recipes where most, if not all of the grist is pils malt due to SMM

 

[Sammy86]

You did a 30 min mash and/or 30 min boil?

I thought the DMS issues were uniquely related to length of boil.

Both, no issues.