Short Session Ale?

[berebrando]

First post. Hello, hop head & malt bomber here... now here's my post:

I want a session ipa with massive massive massive hop flavor and aroma (did I mention I want massive hop flavor and massive hop aroma). I've seen a couple threads about the impacts of short boils, but I'm not convinced against doing it.

Don't jump to an answer, I'm not about to do a short boil to save time, in fact, the boil will likely end up around 60 minutes to boil down to a target volume. Rather, I'm looking to do a short boil to maximize flavor and aroma in a session ale while balancing bitterness. Oh, and cost is not a big issue as I buy hops and grain in bulk (plus this is a tiny amount of hops in the grand scheme of things).

My goal: to achieve, roughly, a 1:1 BU:GU ratio in a flavorful and aromatic session ipa.

"Short Session Ale"
OG: 1.039 (70% efficiency)
FG: 1.010
ABV 3.9%
5 Gallons
Grain Bill:
7# 2-row
1# flaked barley

Here's where the boil comes in:

Option 1: 60 Minute Boil, 39 IBU (1 BU:GU)
60 Min 0.25 oz Amarillo
60 Min 0.25 oz Centennial
60 Min 0.25 oz Citra
5 Min 0.5 oz Amarillo
5 Min 0.5 oz Centennial
5 Min 0.5 oz Citra
1 Min 0.5 oz Amarillo
1 Min 0.5 oz Centennial
1 Min 0.5 oz Citra

Option 2: 15 Minute Boil, 41 IBU (1.07 BU:GU)
15 Min 0.5 oz Amarillo
15 Min 0.5 oz Centennial
15 Min 0.5 oz Citra
5 Min 0.5 oz Amarillo
5 Min 0.5 oz Centennial
5 Min 0.5 oz Citra
1 Min 1.0 oz Amarillo
1 Min 1.0 oz Centennial
1 Min 1.0 oz Citra

Throw in a pack of US-05 and make beer.
Dry hop till it's delicious.

At this point, you know I want to go with Option 2, but I want to hear what you have to say - will it work? will it be good? what are the upsides (flavor and aroma) and downsides (proteins)? I look forward to your opinions (I've really valued them throughout the last year or so as I've lurked on this site)

 

[dcp27]

Why not just do a 60min boil and hop w/ option 2? a sub 60-min boil can leave DMS in the brew leading to a canned-corn flavor/aroma.

 

[dzlater]

I would kind of split the two.
And do hops @ 30, 15, 5 and 1 minutes.
But don't listen to me do what you want.

 

[logdrum]

Hey, I don't want to come across as a d!ck*, but your OG dictates that this is NOT an IPA. It isn't even an American Pale Ale, it's closest to an Standard/Ordinary Bitter-although the IBUs are a tad high.

http://www.bjcp.org/stylecenter.php


*This post was made in the spirit of information & not intended to chastise or berate.

 

[dcp27]

Hey, I don't want to come across as a d!ck*, but your OG dictates that this is NOT an IPA. It isn't even an American Pale Ale, it's closest to an Standard/Ordinary Bitter-although the IBUs are a tad high.

http://www.bjcp.org/stylecenter.php


*This post was made in the spirit of information & not intended to chastise or berate.

hence the word session

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/wiki/index.php/Specialty_Session_Beer

 

[motobrewer]

i agree to the "boil for 60 but use hop schedule #2" comment.

and i might use more hops at 15 or have a 30min addition.

 

[logdrum]

hence the word session

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/wiki/index.php/Specialty_Session_Beer

like a session barleywine?

 

[logdrum]

but in response to the initial query:have you considered First Wort Hopping?

 

[winvarin]

+1 for option 2. I have been wanting to try a beer with all the hop additions 30 min or later. There is a good article on it here

 

[berebrando]

Why not just do a 60min boil and hop w/ option 2? a sub 60-min boil can leave DMS in the brew leading to a canned-corn flavor/aroma.

So, based on everything I've seen, DMS is the primary concern with a short boil. However, I plan on boiling down wort for at least 60 minutes to a target volume. Do I need hops present in a boil for 60 minutes to remove the DMS?

Hey, I don't want to come across as a d!ck*, but your OG dictates that this is NOT an IPA. It isn't even an American Pale Ale, it's closest to an Standard/Ordinary Bitter-although the IBUs are a tad high.

Thanks for the info. As I'm not going to enter this in any competitions, I could care less if it meets style guidelines. All I want is a very tasty session beer. By skipping a 60 minute boil, I think I can reach a target IBU an maximize hop flavor and aroma simultaneously.

hence the word session

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/wiki/index.php/Specialty_Session_Beer

Thanks for the link - this is what I'm looking for. I guess I should just refer to this as a Specialty Session to avoid confusion.

+1 for option 2. I have been wanting to try a beer with all the hop additions 30 min or later. There is a good article on it here

Thanks for the link.

I'm planning on brewing this soon and I'm seriously considering brewing 5 gallon batches using both Hopping Options. It seems like as long as I boil the wort long enough, using only 15 minute (or less) hop additions will not do much other than maximize flavoring and aroma to reach a desired IBU.

 

[22415 Brewery]

I first wanna tell you that it's a great idea and I hope it turns out the way you want it to.

Your massive hop aroma is primarily going to come from your really late additions as well as your dry-hopping schedule.

Your bitterness obviously will come from your boil hops, and I don't see any reason why you couldn't use different varieties at the beginning of the boil.

You may find it interesting how differing hop co-humolone levels will change the perceived bitterness of your finished beer. Generally, hops with higher percentages of cohumulone (alphaacid% being the total of humulone, adhumulone and cohumulone) will generally have a resin-like quality.

When you boil your bittering additions for around 30 minutes or more the other humulones are isomerized imparting what can be perceived as a harsher bitterness. Some people call it "catty" or "cat-nippish".

So along with your low SG you may want to consider your bittering additions and whether they will impart the profile that you seek.

As far as the DMS concern, with a session ale I personally prefer to have a touch of it. To me it increases the perceived body and mouthfeel of low grav brews. I personally have only really had DMS issues with Pilsner malt in very very light and low-hopped brews anyway. Up to you.

Your recipe #2 is similar to hop-bursting. I've had huge success with hop bursting and highly recommend it. The upside is that it won't extract those "other humolones" and will retain a lot of flavor and aroma properties. The downside is that in larger batches and additions it can get prohibitively expensive.

Let us know what you end up doing!

 

[dcp27]

So, based on everything I've seen, DMS is the primary concern with a short boil. However, I plan on boiling down wort for at least 60 minutes to a target volume. Do I need hops present in a boil for 60 minutes to remove the DMS?

nope no need for hops in there to remove DMS. IIRC, when I did a hop-bursted brew I only boiled 30 mins and it came out great, but all the hops may have just covered up any remaining DMS.

you can do both options if you want since both will be great, but I'd FWH instead of 60min adds in #1 to account for removing the flavor adds.

 

[berebrando]

You may find it interesting how differing hop co-humolone levels will change the perceived bitterness of your finished beer. Generally, hops with higher percentages of cohumulone (alphaacid% being the total of humulone, adhumulone and cohumulone) will generally have a resin-like quality.

When you boil your bittering additions for around 30 minutes or more the other humulones are isomerized imparting what can be perceived as a harsher bitterness. Some people call it "catty" or "cat-nippish".

So along with your low SG you may want to consider your bittering additions and whether they will impart the profile that you seek.

As far as the DMS concern, with a session ale I personally prefer to have a touch of it. To me it increases the perceived body and mouthfeel of low grav brews. I personally have only really had DMS issues with Pilsner malt in very very light and low-hopped brews anyway. Up to you.

Your recipe #2 is similar to hop-bursting. I've had huge success with hop bursting and highly recommend it. The upside is that it won't extract those "other humolones" and will retain a lot of flavor and aroma properties. The downside is that in larger batches and additions it can get prohibitively expensive.

Thanks a ton for your insights. The humolone levels are not something I had thought about. It's interesting to think about how the different levels will impart different flavors.

I guess I'm experimenting with hopbursting, however I understand hopbursting as adding most hops late in the boil, whereas I want to add all hops late boil. It's hopbursting to the extreme!

Let us know what you end up doing!

After making this post and thinking about it - I've decided that I might as well try both hopping options (as well as a third that I'm considering with a 30-minute bittering addition). I'm going to try to hit close to the same IBU's and use the same grain bill for all versions. I'll most definitely report back afterward.

 

[berebrando]

you can do both options if you want since both will be great, but I'd FWH instead of 60min adds in #1 to account for removing the flavor adds.

That's what I'm going to do. Option 1 with FWH and Option 2. Thanks

 

[skibb]

For option two I would consider making your boil time longer - at least 30 minutes total (why not just do 60?). Longer boils will also help develop melanoidins in your wort and add might add a richer maltiness and balance out the beer more. Also there are things you want to avoid having in your final beer, and longer boils help to eliminate them (namely DMS and other undesirable compounds). With a 15 minute boil your beer will most likely be cloudy - I doubt 15 minutes is long enough to create an adequate hot break and remove undesired proteins.

Edit: whoops I had this thread open overnight and just now replied...

 

[berebrando]

Quick update:

I brewed the 15-minute version of this Session Ale on Sunday. I ended up boiling for 45 minutes total. (on another note, this was the first time I used my new barley crusher and I experienced an increase in efficiency - which lead me to boil for 45 minutes instead of 60!)

I am very excited about this beer - it smells so amazing through the airlock. This Sesh Ale smells more hoppy pungent through the airlock than some of my IPAs!

 

[berebrando]

Another quick update (because I hate when I get to the end of an old thread and the there's no ending!):

I brewed the 60-minute version of this Session Ale yesterday. Same amount of hops - 4.5 OZ evenly split between centennial, amarillo and citra. The only difference between the two ales is the hop addition times (managed to get the same gravities and ibu's). I thought about dry hopping these, but now that I think about it, that might obscure the results of this test. This beer does not smell anything close to the same as the 15-minute Sesh through the airlock (as expected, the 15-minute version was an aroma explosion).

I'll have more updates next month when these two ales are taste-tested side-by-side. I'm very interested in seeing how "stable" the 15-minute version is. Will it lose almost all of it's hop flavor after a month or so in the bottle (I expect it will degrade pretty quickly)? Will the 60-minute version prevail or will 15-minute boils be my new standard for hoppy beers?

 

[22415 Brewery]

Ain't that the cool thing about brewing? 15 minutes could become your new standard (for a while) until you feel the need to explore and tinker more!

Here's to beer.

 

[logdrum]

Excellent, looking forward to the results.

-d