Sharing a Citra IPA recipe

[Zabuza]

5 gallons of 1.020 beer has 5 x 20 = 100 gravity units of residual sugar.

Let's say we add a gallon of water. What's the SG? 100 / (5+1) = 16.7 = 1.0167 SG...you've just diluted the beer with water, hence gravity falls...nothing fancy here.

Besides, don't try to make this an argument of opinion vs. math... you hardly painted a clear picture with your math.

So much wrong with this post. First of all, how is TyTanium not being clear? Everyone understands your point that if all the added sugar is eaten, the FG should remain the same (because there'd be no residual sugar left over to screw with the FG). Dogmatically repeating that this is the end of the story and there is nothing more to say does not make that the case. TyTanium clearly states that the extra alcohol generated from adding that sugar is of a much lower gravity than the surrounding liquid - and since we can all agree that there would be more low-density liquid in the finished product, this simply means that the final gravity would be lower. You can't claim that adding a bunch of alcohol (and nothing else) to a beer won't lower the gravity, man...that's just crazy.

Oh and another thing - what on earth are you talking about with the whole opinion vs. math thing? When our opinions are outright refuted by mathematical truths, we have a responsibility to revise those opinions (or at the very least, point out exactly where the math is wrong). To cling dogmatically to your opinion in the face of overwhelming evidence to the contrary would be to invite irrationality and credulity which undermine critical thinking and evidence-based reasoning. Don't endorse that BS, especially on a forum that's trying to help n00bs learn the science of beer making.

Oh, your statements about black holes and event horizons are complete nonsense, by the way...those things ARE predicted by math - how on earth do you think we came up with them? They're in principle unobservable (you can't check out a black hole and come back) and we certainly don't currently have the ability to go visit the edge of one or anything, so how do you think we postulated their existence? That's right, via math.

Good for you! I'm glad you finally came to a solution that satisfies you Do you feel better?

Dude, c'mon...really? You're just making a fool out of yourself because you're the one that's wrong. How embarrassing...that's why you should refrain from making posts like these.

 

[bobbrews]

So much wrong with this post. First of all, how is TyTanium not being clear?

If you actually read who I was responding to you would know it was not TyTanium. It was jbaysurfer.

Oh, your statements about black holes and event horizons are complete nonsense, by the way...those things ARE predicted by math - how on earth do you think we came up with them?

You obviously know nothing about the loopholes in our science. But I'm not going to try to educate you on that either. Everything we think we know about physics breaks down when we try to understand black holes. THAT'S WHY THEY'RE CALLED THEORIES!! I thought it was representative in this situation since everyone is giving theories here and no concrete answers.

Dude, c'mon...really? You're just making a fool out of yourself because you're the one that's wrong. How embarrassing...that's why you should refrain from making posts like these.

No I'm not. If there are people out there who think they know the answer before all the details are resolved, then why bother listening to them? This guy said he already knew everything and that he was done. Good for him! That doesn't change the fact that the question is still up for debate for many others as seen in this thread.

The problem with this whole discussion is one of semantics. "Drier" is a subjective term

No it's not. Dry in this discussion, and in the most un-subjective sense denotes a lower FG. A 1.010 FG beer is drier than a 1.020 FG beer. No arguing that. I'm arguing that adding a bunch of simple sugar to a base recipe without sugar that predicts 1.020 FG will not drop the FG of the original recipe. Do I have clear convincing unrefutable proof for everyone? No... no one here does.

 

[TyTanium]

I have brewed many identical IPAs with sugar vs. without sugar, so I am satisfied with that answer.

This is helpful...I have not done comparisons so I can only theorize and rely on others' experience.

And I agree that if I have a 1.015 that I want to finish at 1.010, adding a few pounds of sugar post fermentation isn't my best bet - the best would be to modify the recipe ahead of time and replace malt with sugar.

No need for all the animosity here. We're just a bunch of homebrewers using mostly anecdotal evidence and high-school chemistry to understand a very particular nuance that many pro-brewers don't understand. Conversational speculation is good, IMO. I've certainly found this discussion valuable.

Good post, BK...I've read a few old threads saying the same, it's a perception based on a bunch of ratios, etc...not as simple as the number on the hydrometer. Happen to still have any of those old textbooks?

EDIT: Mods - a large portion of this thread is off topic (sorry OP - it was my doing)...but the content is still valuable I think, are you able to move the OT posts to its own thread?

 

[bobbrews]

TyTanium... I'm not telling you to believe what I believe. I'm telling you why I believe what I believe.

Everyone in this thread is being just as dogmatically repetitive by telling us what they believe. No one has all the answers for everyone or the thread would have ended.

 

[jbaysurfer]

This guy said he already knew everything and that he was done.

I said I knew the answer to whether a sugar addition dries out a beer. Not everything. I AM done with the debate, but felt I needed to represent myself since you went out of your way to MISrepresent me. Bad form.

 

[bobbrews]

jbaysurfer... nothing personal. We're all getting a little annoyed for not having a clear answer everyone can agree on. I personally don't think sugar dries out a beer in every situation.

 

[Boerderij_Kabouter]

This internet stuff is serious business.

Dryness is a subjective term. A beer with 8abv and a finishing gravity of 1010 will be comparably more dry when tasted next to a 4abv beer with a 1010fg. Dryness refers to a sensation of flavor and sensory analysis in your mouth. If we were talking about purely finishing gravity we would be talking about that, no dryness.

Bob, you will continue to believe what you want and there is enough debate here for people to make up their own minds.

 

[bobbrews]

Dryness is a subjective term. A beer with 8abv and a finishing gravity of 1010 will be comparably more dry when tasted next to a 4abv beer with a 1010fg. Dryness refers to a sensation of flavor and sensory analysis in your mouth. If we were talking about purely finishing gravity we would be talking about that, no dryness.

Bob, you will continue to believe what you want and there is enough debate here for people to make up their own minds.

You obviously have a lot to learn about dryness. Dryness is not synonymous with alcohol content. You could have a sweet bourbon with 40% alcohol. Besides, in your above example you're comparing two beers with the same FG... They will have the same level of residual sugars!!! This discussion is not about perceived dryness, but actual dryness.

And you could make up your mind all you want, but there are still no concrete answers.