Shambles!!!! Please help!!

[TBMaster]

After having waiting for wife and kids to go away for weekend for what feels like monthsI have brew day at last.

Has been worst day ever.

Will update all the other disasters but electric boiler has broken just before hitting boiling point, I'm doing my first all grain so this stuff needs boiling. My biggest stove pot is 8 litres.

So question (I'm doing 24litre / 5 gallon batch) can I split into three and do an hours boil on each and just do a third of the hops in each? Or is here a simpler way. I've been going for seven hours already....please help

Think I may just give up and bin it.

 

[Ohio-Ed]

If you're up to 3 separate boils... that should work.
Hop utilization may not be 100% accurate, but should be close enough.

Good luck.

Ed

 

[TBMaster]

Ok thanks....already begun boil one. I'm damned if I'm gonna waste seven hours. It's all a learning curve, right?

One question what do I do with the already boiled wort while I'm doing the next? Will it be ok cooling naturally in a plastic fermenting bucket?

 

[Ohio-Ed]

Yes, just get your fementor sanitized & ready then add each boil as you finish. Pitch your yeast when its all added & cooled.

 

[TBMaster]

Approaching the end of the third and final batch.....what a rubbish day. Is this hobby really fun? Doesn't feel like it today.

 

[Xcorpia]

Sorry to hear you had a crappy brew day. It will all be worth it once you enjoy a cold one a few weeks later

 

[Ohio-Ed]

Approaching the end of the third and final batch.....what a rubbish day. Is this hobby really fun? Doesn't feel like it today.

You made BEER... how much more fun could you have?

Glad you saw it through... hope you enjoy the final results.

 

[Dogphish]

oh boy. when i first started brewing all grain, i had several bad brew days after a perfect first all grain batch. i asked myself the same questions. my problem was a bad floating thermometer that was sticking at 165.

get a new electric burner, or even a reasonably priced turkey fryer. you will have fun using your new equipment.

 

[buckeyebrewer]

Hang in there....I think we have all had our clusterf@$k brew days. As you refine your technique and get your equipment running again it will get better. Live and learn.....at least you have your first all grain batch under your belt.

 

[TBMaster]

A quick thanks for help and support. Ended with 4 gallons....lost a lot doing three boils. Only managed about 1.042 ish OG...which isn't great my efficiency needs some work, but I'm guessing it'll never be so bad again.

Ferment started within about three hours, have a healthy krausen already which is reassuring.

Just to list the foul ups (for comic effect):

1) stuck sparge - first one, took two and half hours to sparge about 15 litres. Finally gave it a suck and crikey it works!

2) wort chiller - made of copper piping snapped. Had to chill in the bath (wort not me!)

3). Boiler....not broken as such, was tripping the house fuse box every time it approached boiling....defo gonna invest in a stock pot and "turkey fryer" as you guys call em.

4). On a lesser note, I really struggled to hit a decent sparge temp. I guess that's to the "stuckness" next time should be ok

Hey ho.....two positives:

1). Happy to have a hefty ferment in the garage....feels almost worthwhile.

2). Used oxyclean on a better bottle I've not been able to get clean for two years.....that stuff is magic. Sorted in 12 hours. Another top tip from these fantastic forums.

Thanks folks.

 

[eastoak]

excellent alliteration!

 

[hops2it]

You got the worst one out of the way. It's all downhill from here.

 

[rxp]

I just did my first AG two weeks ago; after 12 hours in the kitchen, an irritated swmbo, and a beer I was sure was ruined before even pitching the yeast, I was near ready to call an end to my budding homebrew career.

• I had trouble getting my mash pH in range, which was exacerbated by the imprecision of those cheap pH strips coupled with my inexperience.
  
• I couldn't get my sparge water pH down low enough. I eventually became fearful of adding too much phosphoric acid and gave up.
  
• I forgot to vorlauf my sparge.
  
• My wort pH was higher than suggested, so I added some acid at the beginning of the boil. Drawing samples of the boiling wort periodically, I began to notice an somewhat intensifying, harsh aftertaste on the back of the tongue. To me, the taste seemed sour, so I though I had added to much acid despite the pH paper indicating that I had not added enough. I "corrected" by adding two additions of 3.5 grams of baking soda to the wort (on top of 3.5 grams already added to the mash) which still didn't remove the aftertaste, but I was unwilling to add any more sodium no matter the outcome.

In a later test with a small glass of water, I determined that phosphoric acid was not detectable at the doses I added to my wort. At detectable levels, the nature of the taste was completely different than I experienced with my wort; I can only think to describe the added characteristic as a "sharpness" on the tongue.

In hindsight, dark little bits sticking to the insides of my kettle were probably husks from the roasted grains that made it in due to my forgotten vorlauf and in turn released tannins which I was tasting on the back of my tongue. At two weeks, it looks like I may be stuck at ~65% AA with a 1.022 SG, but at least the harsh aftertaste has subsided somewhat. I'm contemplating picking up some Polyclar VT, but based on samples, I think once this beer matures it may be surprisingly drinkable.

Next up: Belgian IPA
My days of determining pH from color gradients are over -- my Hanna pHep5 gets here next week -- and my next online order will include 5.2 pH stabilizer to help with my sparge pH.

 

[eastoak]

I just did my first AG two weeks ago; after 12 hours in the kitchen, an irritated swmbo, and a beer I was sure was ruined before even pitching the yeast, I was near ready to call an end to my budding homebrew career.

• I had trouble getting my mash pH in range, which was exacerbated by the imprecision of those cheap pH strips coupled with my inexperience.
  
• I couldn't get my sparge water pH down low enough. I eventually became fearful of adding too much phosphoric acid and gave up.
  
• I forgot to vorlauf my sparge.
  
• My wort pH was higher than suggested, so I added some acid at the beginning of the boil. Drawing samples of the boiling wort periodically, I began to notice an somewhat intensifying, harsh aftertaste on the back of the tongue. To me, the taste seemed sour, so I though I had added to much acid despite the pH paper indicating that I had not added enough. I "corrected" by adding two additions of 3.5 grams of baking soda to the wort (on top of 3.5 grams already added to the mash) which still didn't remove the aftertaste, but I was unwilling to add any more sodium no matter the outcome.

In a later test with a small glass of water, I determined that phosphoric acid was not detectable at the doses I added to my wort. At detectable levels, the nature of the taste was completely different than I experienced with my wort; I can only think to describe the added characteristic as a "sharpness" on the tongue.

In hindsight, dark little bits sticking to the insides of my kettle were probably husks from the roasted grains that made it in due to my forgotten vorlauf and in turn released tannins which I was tasting on the back of my tongue. At two weeks, it looks like I may be stuck at ~65% AA with a 1.022 SG, but at least the harsh aftertaste has subsided somewhat. I'm contemplating picking up some Polyclar VT, but based on samples, I think once this beer matures it may be surprisingly drinkable.

Next up: Belgian IPA
My days of determining pH from color gradients are over -- my Hanna pHep5 gets here next week -- and my next online order will include 5.2 pH stabilizer to help with my sparge pH.

try this next time

 

[mcaple1]

Wife and Kids are gone....BATEFEST 2000!!!...no in all seriousness though have fun brewing.

 

[mcaple1]

I just did my first AG two weeks ago; after 12 hours in the kitchen, an irritated swmbo, and a beer I was sure was ruined before even pitching the yeast, I was near ready to call an end to my budding homebrew career.

• I had trouble getting my mash pH in range, which was exacerbated by the imprecision of those cheap pH strips coupled with my inexperience.
  
• I couldn't get my sparge water pH down low enough. I eventually became fearful of adding too much phosphoric acid and gave up.
  
• I forgot to vorlauf my sparge.
  
• My wort pH was higher than suggested, so I added some acid at the beginning of the boil. Drawing samples of the boiling wort periodically, I began to notice an somewhat intensifying, harsh aftertaste on the back of the tongue. To me, the taste seemed sour, so I though I had added to much acid despite the pH paper indicating that I had not added enough. I "corrected" by adding two additions of 3.5 grams of baking soda to the wort (on top of 3.5 grams already added to the mash) which still didn't remove the aftertaste, but I was unwilling to add any more sodium no matter the outcome.

In a later test with a small glass of water, I determined that phosphoric acid was not detectable at the doses I added to my wort. At detectable levels, the nature of the taste was completely different than I experienced with my wort; I can only think to describe the added characteristic as a "sharpness" on the tongue.

In hindsight, dark little bits sticking to the insides of my kettle were probably husks from the roasted grains that made it in due to my forgotten vorlauf and in turn released tannins which I was tasting on the back of my tongue. At two weeks, it looks like I may be stuck at ~65% AA with a 1.022 SG, but at least the harsh aftertaste has subsided somewhat. I'm contemplating picking up some Polyclar VT, but based on samples, I think once this beer matures it may be surprisingly drinkable.

Next up: Belgian IPA
My days of determining pH from color gradients are over -- my Hanna pHep5 gets here next week -- and my next online order will include 5.2 pH stabilizer to help with my sparge pH.

Holy cow...relax with the pH craziness man...holy crap! Seriously, you're not brewing with Hydrochloric Acid or Hydrogen Peroxide...I've brewed a lot of beers now and they all turned out fine...and I never looked a pH strip for any of them. Man...if only the early beer makers had pH 5.2 then they too could have made great beer.....derrr!?

 

[jd3]

Looks LIke I would just have a higher amp fuse wired in and a dedicated outlet.

 

[TBMaster]

Dedicated outlet would cost more than stock pot, plus even when working it really struggles with a full boil. Tbh I've come to conclusion I can do a full boil on the stove top....eight burners.

Bought a 37.8 litre stock pot off eBay this morning.....already planning next brew. An all grain Timothy Taylor Landlord clone ( tried my hand a fairly poor extract version a couple of years ago....have decent recipe this time).

By the way I never mentioned what my first brew was, it was Edwort's Bee Cave Kolsch. Fingers crossed it is at least drinkable. Purpose of moving to all grain was I've never been able to escape the extract twang, I always know I'm drinking homebrew.

 

[Shift]

• I had trouble getting my mash pH in range, which was exacerbated by the imprecision of those cheap pH strips coupled with my inexperience.
  
• I couldn't get my sparge water pH down low enough. I eventually became fearful of adding too much phosphoric acid and gave up.
  
• I forgot to vorlauf my sparge.
  
• My wort pH was higher than suggested, so I added some acid at the beginning of the boil. Drawing samples of the boiling wort periodically, I began to notice an somewhat intensifying, harsh aftertaste on the back of the tongue. To me, the taste seemed sour, so I though I had added to much acid despite the pH paper indicating that I had not added enough. I "corrected" by adding two additions of 3.5 grams of baking soda to the wort (on top of 3.5 grams already added to the mash) which still didn't remove the aftertaste, but I was unwilling to add any more sodium no matter the outcome.

I haven't went that deep into water chemistry (saving that 'til autumn) but I recall that checking mash pH at mash temperature you want a pH around 5.7 or so, but at room temperature you want 5.2.

I don't know if that helps in hindsight but it's worth checking out, just in case you missed that. I know I did for a while. Also anyone more experienced is very welcome to correct me if I'm wrong.

 

[rxp]

Holy cow...relax with the pH craziness man...holy crap! Seriously, you're not brewing with Hydrochloric Acid or Hydrogen Peroxide...I've brewed a lot of beers now and they all turned out fine...and I never looked a pH strip for any of them. Man...if only the early beer makers had pH 5.2 then they too could have made great beer.....derrr!?

Thanks; I probably will. I don't think I would have bothered with checking the wort pH if I hadn't been worried about the sparge water pH. My mash pH ended up being pretty close and for my next sparge, I'll try some 5.2 pH stabilizer and be done with it. In this case, I don't think the pH contribution to the outcome was significant anyway.

That said, since early beer drinkers spent an untold number of batches developing their beers for the water in the region, they experienced these problems as well. They got their target pH not by changing the water chemistry, but by changing their beer recipes.

try this next time

Yep, after the pH meter, that is my priority purchase in my next order.

I haven't went that deep into water chemistry (saving that 'til autumn) but I recall that checking mash pH at mash temperature you want a pH around 5.7 or so, but at room temperature you want 5.2.

I don't know if that helps in hindsight but it's worth checking out, just in case you missed that. I know I did for a while. Also anyone more experienced is very welcome to correct me if I'm wrong.

Thanks for the tip. I did try to let the samples cool to room temperature before taking measurements, but I didn't have any sort of cooling bath and the downside of this was to draw out the mash time and lose some temperature. The Hanna pHep5 comes with automatic temperature compensation, so while it is still advantageous to let the samples cool for probe longevity, I won't be too concerned about +/-20 degrees.

Thanks again for the feedback, all!

 

[TBMaster]

An update....just racked to secondary for cold crashing. Worth secondary as still had most of hops etc in there. The good news is it's down at 1.008 (maybe a touch less) and tastes good. Finally I have made something that doesn't taste like homebrew.

 

[zepolmot]

What do you mean by "doesn't taste like homebrew"?

 

[TBMaster]

I mean everything I've ever brewed has always had a slight flavour that identified it as home brew. My theory has always been that this was extract, it was worse with the basic kits, and better with a full boil with dme (but it was still there). Pretty confident after tasting my very green beer today that all grain has resolved it.

For me the end goal of a home brewer (or me anyway) is to brew beer as good as that which I can buy in a pub, not to brew something that is good for home brew but overall a bit inferior.

 

[Xcorpia]

Good to know it's turning out well.

I mean everything I've ever brewed has always had a slight flavour that identified it as home brew. My theory has always been that this was extract, it was worse with the basic kits, and better with a full boil with dme (but it was still there). Pretty confident after tasting my very green beer today that all grain has resolved it.

For me the end goal of a home brewer (or me anyway) is to brew beer as good as that which I can buy in a pub, not to brew something that is good for home brew but overall a bit inferior.

I'm planning on doing my first all grain brew sometime this coming weekend. I hope I get rid of that peculiar flavor you're talking about.

 

[TBMaster]

Next batch on the boil, an all grain Timothy Taylor Landlord clone, and what a difference a batch under your belt makes. Mash and sparge went text book, no slow flow...temps bang on. Hurrah for brewing, why did I ever doubt the hobby.

Kegged the kolsch today too...it tasted great.

All is well with the world.

 

[passedpawn]

Holy cow...relax with the pH craziness man...

+1 yep. I used to watch the pH, but after 50 batches of decent to great beer, I've decided it isn't all that important. ESPECIALLY for new brewers. This is the downside of this forum.... lots of minutia that can weigh heavily on the minds of noobs. Mind your temps when doing your first AG batches and you'll be fine.

 

[mcaple1]

I mean everything I've ever brewed has always had a slight flavour that identified it as home brew. My theory has always been that this was extract, it was worse with the basic kits, and better with a full boil with dme (but it was still there). Pretty confident after tasting my very green beer today that all grain has resolved it.

For me the end goal of a home brewer (or me anyway) is to brew beer as good as that which I can buy in a pub, not to brew something that is good for home brew but overall a bit inferior.

I totally understand that....I was always a bit thrown off by extract twang in my finished beer. Now that I am doing all-grain, it tastes very clean, but don't get me wrong, people have made GREAT beers with extract.

 

[TBMaster]

It's an interesting point. Guess I need to find a club or something. I need to taste really good beer from extract to be convinced...but having said that loads of people do extract brew and they can't just be ignoring the "twang".

Using a stock pot today I did wonder whether my boils haven't been strong enough historically and whether that was kicker.

Who knows, all grain now, and proper full boils. The kolsch is clean and no twang, and hopefully today's effort will the same.

 

[rxp]

+1 yep. I used to watch the pH, but after 50 batches of decent to great beer, I've decided it isn't all that important. ESPECIALLY for new brewers. This is the downside of this forum.... lots of minutia that can weigh heavily on the minds of noobs. Mind your temps when doing your first AG batches and you'll be fine.

I appreciate the feedback. I've been trying to mute my responses in order to avoid hijacking the thread (sorry, TB) since my original intent was only to express empathy.

That said, I brewed a 7 SRM batch last weekend with a 1.35 qt/lb water to grain ratio and read a pH of 6.4 (!) from the mash with my calibrated Hanna pHep 5. I was eventually able to bring the pH down to 5.8 by using 5.2 stabilizer, phosphoric acid, and calcium chloride. Due to my inexperience, this took longer than it should have and in mash and first running samples, I began to notice the presence of the same unpleasant bitterness that I observed in my previous batch. By mid boil, the bitterness was significantly masked or diluted to produce an outcome that was much better than the batch I first wrote about. From now on, I'll be mixing with distilled to mitigate these issues, but unlike some of you, I don't think I can avoid confronting pH complications.