Serious Efficency Problems

[nicklawmusic]

Am I missing something? I've recently upgraded my system from doing BIAB to batch sparging using a 48L cool box. On all three occasions that I've used this method, my OG has been around 10 points lower than I've anticipated.

I've ensured all my water measurements are correct, temperatures right, malt crush, etc; yet my overall efficiency seems to be around 64%, which is MUCH lower than when I was doing BIAB (in which I was hitting my target OG).

I'm using BeerSmith to do calculations.

Any ideas what I can do to improve my efficiency?

An example recipe is if you search the Beersmith receive site for Emmanuales Abbey Beer (I'd post the link but my iPhone refuses to paste the address in-app!) and look at the volumes and estimated gravities, I hit my pre-boil at 1.058 but was low on volume due to grain absorption, so added 3L of water to the kettle bringing my gravity down to 1.052. Yet my starting OG was only 1.061, when it should have been higher even with the additional water.

Hope that all made sense!

 

[madscientist451]

Could you have added the 3L of water to the mash tun and run it off & then added to kettle?
I get 75-85% efficiency by doing the following:
-Pre-heat mash tun with hot water
-use strike water calculator to get proper water temp.
-mash 1.25 to 1.5 quarts/lb
-stir grains into water, check temp, put lid on cooler and forget about it for an hour.
-use step mash calculator to determine how much boiling water to add to mash to bring to mashout temp, add boiling water and stir it in after 60 mins.
-wait 10 mins, vorlauf 3-4 quarts, then slowly run off first runnings.
--add batch sparge water same as mashout temp, stir, let sit for 10 mins, vorlauf and slowly run off as above.
Everyone has their own way that works for them and the equipment they have, so play around with your methods and find a way that works for you. Good Luck!

 

[MindenMan]

Did you change your crush as you aren't using a bag anymore? That alone could certainly cause your efficiency loss.

 

[Pappers_]

I hit my pre-boil at 1.058 but was low on volume due to grain absorption, so added 3L of water to the kettle bringing my gravity down to 1.052.

Sparge until you hit your pre-boil volume, rather than adding water.

Also, did you calculate what your efficiency was?

 

[nicklawmusic]

My mash efficiency was 77% but my overall efficiency is about 64%

Madscientist451 - I did do all that (except maybe the ratio, that was just half and half the water).

 

[Pappers_]

My mash efficiency was 77% but my overall efficiency is about 64%.

Brewhouse efficiency of 64% is low but not outrageous. I target 70%. For most brewers, the percentage isn't nearly as important as the predictability. I can count on 70% efficiency - so I can create recipes, hit my numbers (OG and volume) and consistently make the beer I'm intending to. That is more important to me than having a higher efficiency.

As I mentioned above, I suspect your issue with this batch was that you stopped sparging too soon, added water instead of sparging until you hit your pre-boil volume target. Does that make sense?

 

[nicklawmusic]

I always thought that with batch sparging you used one half of the water in the mash and the other in the sparge. Should my target amount be what goes into my kettle?

Also, I'd not really thought about the rinsing of sugars so my drain on both the first runnings and batch sparge wasn't slow, but just opened the valve and let it flow. Also, I guess I should have given it more of a stir rather than just t the start. I'm fairly new to sparging since moving from BIAB.

 

[Yooper]

I always thought that with batch sparging you used one half of the water in the mash and the other in the sparge. Should my target amount be what goes into my kettle?

Also, I'd not really thought about the rinsing of sugars so my drain on both the first runnings and batch sparge wasn't slow, but just opened the valve and let it flow. Also, I guess I should have given it more of a stir rather than just t the start. I'm fairly new to sparging since moving from BIAB.

You generally want to mash with 1.5-ish quarts of water per pound of grain. Once you drain that off, you simply add enough sparge water to your mashtun to equal your boil volume. You don't have to do 1/2 and 1/2, although sometimes it works out that way if you're using, say, 8 gallons of water and you have 12 pounds of grain. But more important is to mash with your mash volume, and to sparge up to your boil volume.

By topping up with water, you are diluting your wort and that will always give you a big hit in efficiency.

You can drain quickly with batch sparging, but when you add your sparge water, you need to stir it well. I mean, stir it like it owes you money- and then vorlauf and drain. Draining quickly is the way to do it.

 

[Owly055]

I never add water without running it through the grain bed...........

 

[Pappers_]

As I mentioned above, I suspect your issue with this batch was that you stopped sparging too soon, added water instead of sparging until you hit your pre-boil volume target. Does that make sense?

I always thought that with batch sparging you used one half of the water in the mash and the other in the sparge. Should my target amount be what goes into my kettle?

Also, I'd not really thought about the rinsing of sugars so my drain on both the first runnings and batch sparge wasn't slow, but just opened the valve and let it flow. Also, I guess I should have given it more of a stir rather than just t the start. I'm fairly new to sparging since moving from BIAB.

You generally want to mash with 1.5-ish quarts of water per pound of grain. Once you drain that off, you simply add enough sparge water to your mashtun to equal your boil volume. You don't have to do 1/2 and 1/2, although sometimes it works out that way if you're using, say, 8 gallons of water and you have 12 pounds of grain. But more important is to mash with your mash volume, and to sparge up to your boil volume.

By topping up with water, you are diluting your wort and that will always give you a big hit in efficiency.

You can drain quickly with batch sparging, but when you add your sparge water, you need to stir it well. I mean, stir it like it owes you money- and then vorlauf and drain. Draining quickly is the way to do it.

A real life example from yesterday, when I was helping a friend brew an ESB, his first all-grain batch.

He had about 11 lbs in his grain bill, was targeting a 5 gallon batch, target OG was 1.053.

He mashed in with 16 quarts of water. When he mashed out, we measured what was in the brew kettle (with our fancy measuring stick LOL) and he had slightly more than 2 gallons of wort from the first runnings. With our system, we needed about 7 gallons pre-boil, so we needed to get 5 gallons out of the batch sparge. He sparged once (our mash tun is 10 gallons, plenty of room), hit his pre-boil volume, hit his post-boil volume, and most importantly, hit his target OG.

We have a yard stick which we have calibrated and marked off for our brew kettle, that's how we tell the volume preboil. You'll need, through experience, to narrow down what your boil off numbers are - on our system, its 2 gallons for 60 minutes.

 

[LandoLincoln]

Am I missing something? I've recently upgraded my system from doing BIAB to batch sparging using a 48L cool box. On all three occasions that I've used this method, my OG has been around 10 points lower than I've anticipated.

I've ensured all my water measurements are correct, temperatures right, malt crush, etc; yet my overall efficiency seems to be around 64%, which is MUCH lower than when I was doing BIAB (in which I was hitting my target OG).

I'm using BeerSmith to do calculations.

Any ideas what I can do to improve my efficiency?

An example recipe is if you search the Beersmith receive site for Emmanuales Abbey Beer (I'd post the link but my iPhone refuses to paste the address in-app!) and look at the volumes and estimated gravities, I hit my pre-boil at 1.058 but was low on volume due to grain absorption, so added 3L of water to the kettle bringing my gravity down to 1.052. Yet my starting OG was only 1.061, when it should have been higher even with the additional water.

Hope that all made sense!

It's all about the gravity units (GU's). If you hit your pre-boil SG but were low on volume, then you can have less beer with the right OG or your can have the right amount of beer with a lesser OG.

What was the pre-boil volume that you added 3L to?

 

[nicklawmusic]

1.058, which was my target pre-boil. After adding 3L water it came down to 1.052. I added 500g of candi sugar to the boil towards the end, so my OG was 1.061.

How do I work out my grain absorption rate, as that is what threw me the most.

 

[LandoLincoln]

1.058, which was my target pre-boil. After adding 3L water it came down to 1.052. I added 500g of candi sugar to the boil towards the end, so my OG was 1.061.

How do I work out my grain absorption rate, as that is what threw me the most.

1.058 was your pre-boil specific gravity.
What was your pre-boil volume before you added 3 more liters?

Grains absorb about .5 liters of wort per pound of grain.

 

[peterj]

You should have had to account for grain absorption when doing BIAB as well right? I suppose the grains will hold more now that you can't squeeze the bag though. But, you are probably losing volume to dead space in the cooler now.

 

[MindenMan]

I usually sparge until I hit my pre boil volume, and then check my calculated pre boil gravity. If I am too low, I will generally sparge another gallon or so making sure my sparge gravity never goes below 1.012, and boil as long as is needed to hit my post boil volume. I can hit my desired pre boil gravity, but not always w/o doing "extra" sparging.