Semi-Traditional India Pale Ale

[HollywoodTK]

So, I am very interested in traditional styles and recipes and would eventually like to develop some methods which would allow me to recreate some of the older styles as they may have tasted (drank fresh, drank undercarbed, aged in oak, secondary "ferment" with Brett, etc). However, I also recognize that just because that's how they did it, that that's how it should be done now. So I would like to make an English IPA relatively similar to what would have been brewed in the early 1800s, something which might have been shipped to India in oak casks.

I recently read a BrewDog article in which they brewed an IPA, packaged in oak, and sent it to sea to ferment with all the sloshing and temperature variation that goes with it.

https://www.brewdog.com/lowdown/blog/project-ipa-making-a-real-india-pale-ale

Now, I don't have access to a seafaring vessel, and have no intent to age for several months in oak (during this trial), so I am planning to create an IPA of traditional grist and hops, and ferment it cool, but on the warmer side, and add oak cubes for a week or so. I'm looking for input from you guys specifically on your opinions of the hop schedule, the quantity of oak (and duration), and the delivery method.

Recipe:

2.5 gallons
OG: 1.070
FG: 1.016
90 minute boil

7 lb United Kingdom - Maris Otter Pale 96.6%
4 oz United Kingdom - Brown 3.4%

1.5 oz EKG at 90 (as FWH)
.5 oz EKG at 10
1 oz EKG Dry Hop for 5 days.

London Ale Yeast Fermented at around 68-70 F (toward the high end of the strain's spectrum)

Then, I plan to soak some American Oak cubes (say, 1 oz) in bourbon or port (a small amount) and 7-10 days prior to packaging to impart that oakiness to it. I understand that most casks for beer would have been cleaned prior to packaging, but I have to imagine that some of the flavor from aging port or bourbon would have been present even after extensive cleaning when using re-purposed casks.

I also recognize that the Brown Malt may not be very traditional. My thoughts there are that as some of the brewers would have used copper kettles and extended brew schedules, there would be more of a melanoidin presence (if only slightly). Rather than change my gear or extend the boil much longer than it is, I think brown malt could be a good substitute. Plus it would have been around then, so it's conceivable that some brewers (especially the little guys looking to distinguish themselves) may have used brown malt in their grist.

Any input would be greatly appreciated.
Cheers!

 

[friarsmith]

Are you kegging? Recipe looks fine. You could also consider 2-4oz or so of Melanoidin. I don't use oak that often, so someone else should weigh in on that part.

FWIW, with my English IPA, I ferment it with WLP007 for 7 days with my kegerator set to 60, then 2-3 days at 68 to clean up any diacetyl, then I rack it to a keg with dry hops in a mesh sack plus a mix of 8oz water (boiled) with a half cup or so of dissolved DME for carbonating. Here's where it gets fun.

My basement has exposed rafters, so for it's "voyage" to India, I hang the keg with a heavy piece of twine. It gets swung once or twice a day for 2-3 weeks, meaning I pull the keg back and let it swing for a few hours on its own. This results in a beautiful, naturally carb'd, dry & fragrant EIPA. After 2-3 weeks, I'll jump it to a serving keg, or you could suspend the hops bag with some unwaxed dental floss and pull the bag out.

 

[JKaranka]

Hiya, I've made a couple of old style IPAs. If you want a bit of that malt flavour, use amber malt rather than brown. Also, up the hops a bit. You have the equivalent of 4oz of hops in the boil, while the recipes I have from the 1800s boil between 10 and 15oz of fresh hops. I tried oak with traditional IPA and it wasn't great. I can see why brewers went into great lengths to minimise the impact of the wood, all the way from sourcing particular varieties of oak, cleaning, lining, etc. The two things I can recommend and that do work well are: a) a secondary in Brett (changes the hop profile and bitterness too), b) or faking the high attenuation by using amylase enzyme. Your beer would be very different with a very dry finish (FG 1.004-1.008)!

 

[HollywoodTK]

Yea, I was thinking about the hops... My issue is that I'm not sure how fresh their hops would have been and what sort of AA% they'd have been working with. EKG is already pretty low, I could imagine using the hopping rates they did was necessary given the hops they were using. Plus, they'd have been aged for several months to a year, so a lot of that hop character and bitterness would have mellowed out. I'd hate to overdo it.

I was worried about the oak imparting too much contrasting flavor. Maybe I'll use less, or for a shorter period. I'll try it out some teas or something.

I would love to do this properly with Brett, but at the moment I'm just not sure I'm set up to get into bacteria yet. I may try the amylase enzyme, however, as my biggest concern with the recipe was the FG. I've never used it, but there's a first time for everything.

I should also note that I plan on carbing this on the very low end of the spectrum. I still want some fizz, but I'm thinking more like 1.5-1.7 volumes or something like that. Thoughts?

 

[JKaranka]

Yea, I was thinking about the hops... My issue is that I'm not sure how fresh their hops would have been and what sort of AA% they'd have been working with. EKG is already pretty low, I could imagine using the hopping rates they did was necessary given the hops they were using. Plus, they'd have been aged for several months to a year, so a lot of that hop character and bitterness would have mellowed out. I'd hate to overdo it.

All the evidence is that: a) %aa of the same varieties two hundred years ago was the same as those same varieties nowadays, b) hops for pale ales were used fresh (even within weeks of harvest), c) hops were kept in stored in purpose built cold rooms, d) they would have been packed in tight bales. If anything, just don't use the absolutely freshest hops you have, but they did put a lot of care into ensuring hops were fresh and in good condition. For other stuff, like porters and stouts they did use old hops, but pale ales were always top of the range and sold at a considerable premium when compared to other styles with the same OG. People paid for the finest ingredients being used: best fresh hops and palest pale malts.

Carbing around 1.6-2.0 would be fine. Gosh, I was going to link to some old analysis of carbonic acid in British pale ales but I can't find it. If I remember right they were comparable to German lagers of the period. That must have been for bottled beer, which sounds reasonable given that they would have most likely contained Brett carrying out a secondary / tertiary fermentation.

 

[BigEd]

So, I am very interested in traditional styles and recipes and would eventually like to develop some methods which would allow me to recreate some of the older styles as they may have tasted (drank fresh, drank undercarbed, aged in oak, secondary "ferment" with Brett, etc). However, I also recognize that just because that's how they did it, that that's how it should be done now. So I would like to make an English IPA relatively similar to what would have been brewed in the early 1800s, something which might have been shipped to India in oak casks.

I recently read a BrewDog article in which they brewed an IPA, packaged in oak, and sent it to sea to ferment with all the sloshing and temperature variation that goes with it.

https://www.brewdog.com/lowdown/blog/project-ipa-making-a-real-india-pale-ale

Now, I don't have access to a seafaring vessel, and have no intent to age for several months in oak (during this trial), so I am planning to create an IPA of traditional grist and hops, and ferment it cool, but on the warmer side, and add oak cubes for a week or so. I'm looking for input from you guys specifically on your opinions of the hop schedule, the quantity of oak (and duration), and the delivery method.

Recipe:

2.5 gallons
OG: 1.070
FG: 1.016
90 minute boil

7 lb United Kingdom - Maris Otter Pale 96.6%
4 oz United Kingdom - Brown 3.4%

1.5 oz EKG at 90 (as FWH)
.5 oz EKG at 10
1 oz EKG Dry Hop for 5 days.

London Ale Yeast Fermented at around 68-70 F (toward the high end of the strain's spectrum)

Then, I plan to soak some American Oak cubes (say, 1 oz) in bourbon or port (a small amount) and 7-10 days prior to packaging to impart that oakiness to it. I understand that most casks for beer would have been cleaned prior to packaging, but I have to imagine that some of the flavor from aging port or bourbon would have been present even after extensive cleaning when using re-purposed casks.

I also recognize that the Brown Malt may not be very traditional. My thoughts there are that as some of the brewers would have used copper kettles and extended brew schedules, there would be more of a melanoidin presence (if only slightly). Rather than change my gear or extend the boil much longer than it is, I think brown malt could be a good substitute. Plus it would have been around then, so it's conceivable that some brewers (especially the little guys looking to distinguish themselves) may have used brown malt in their grist.

Any input would be greatly appreciated.
Cheers!

Brown malt isn't a good sub for suspected melanoidins IMO. A 90-120 minute boil would be better. Those old brews were likely made with all pale malt although there is disagreement as to how pale it was. The malt was almost certainly not as well malted or modified as modern versions. I'd consider mixing some unmalted, flaked barley into the grain bill. Subbing mild malt for some of the pale might give a better effect than brown malt.

The oak aging is another point of uncertainty. Wooden beer storage vessels were usually lined with brewers' pitch so the oak flavor aspect is probably a modern romanticism.

 

[Yeastieboy]

Circle Brewing in my neighborhood recently released a Histroical IPA called Archetype. I think it's fantastic... Perhaps their best beer yet. Anyhow, you may be able to find some helpful info related to production of that beer.

http://www.circlebrewing.com/#!Arch...Historical-IPA/iab04/5717a87d0cf28f7f9b99e698

 

[HollywoodTK]

Brown malt isn't a good sub for suspected melanoidins IMO. A 90-120 minute boil would be better. Those old brews were likely made with all pale malt although there is disagreement as to how pale it was. The malt was almost certainly not as well malted or modified as modern versions. I'd consider mixing some unmalted, flaked barley into the grain bill. Subbing mild malt for some of the pale might give a better effect than brown malt.

The oak aging is another point of uncertainty. Wooden beer storage vessels were usually lined with brewers' pitch so the oak flavor aspect is probably a modern romanticism.

Bah, you (and a couple others I've asked) have convinced me by shear numbers that the brown malt (or any "adjunct") would be inappropriate. I was already planning a 90 minute boil, so I'll just go with that and see how it goes. If next time I want to try some more melanoidin flavors, I may reduce some first runnings and re-add to the boil kettle.

See, I've heard about the pitch lining, but I can't find any definitive source either way. I've seen numerous accounts where one says, "The casks were cleaned with hot stones and lime and..." and others that say they were lined with pitch. From what I can tell, brewer's pitch was more widely used in mainland Europe for things like lagers and very pale beers where the beer wasn't substantive enough to mask flavors/acids leached from the wood, whereas in the UK, it may not have been as prevalent given the styles of beer being brewed. Do you have any sources I could look at that go into this? Here's an oft-cited article which goes into some slight detail, though I can't speak to the veracity of the research... http://barclayperkins.blogspot.ca/2010/04/lining-casks-with-pitch.html

 

[JKaranka]

Yes, that blog is fairly good. They definitively avoided American oak by all means, though:

http://barclayperkins.blogspot.co.uk/2011/03/oak-and-ww-ii.html
http://barclayperkins.blogspot.co.uk/2011/04/oak-and-ww-ii-part-two.html#links

The aim is to provide the oak cask with the least flavour.

 

[HollywoodTK]

Yea, I suspect they would have used English Oak in the 1800s, but I don't have access to that... I was hoping that by using a relatively small quantity that I would get a hint of oak without that thick vanilla oakiness. Perhaps I'll try a split batch.

 

[JKaranka]

Or a very small amount of a lighter wood? Maybe apple or alder.

 

[HollywoodTK]

Good idea, I'll look into trying some teas with different hardwoods and see if any give a slight woody/earthy hint that might be pleasant with EKG