Secondary-now I am confused

[Truble]

OK, so I started listening to some brewing podcasts, and I am listening to the Jamil Show on American Pale Ales, and goes off on a tangent on how he does not use secondary for anything but his meads. He goes primary and then to the keg. For you out there who keg, are you using secondaries? He said that it was beneficial to let the beer sit on the yeast, and that his beers used to get screwed up when he used secondaries.

Anyone have any thoughts on this?

 

[Desert_Sky]

Ive only gone straight to the keg once. That was with my stout, so I couldnt really tell any difference in appearance. Its not gone yet, so I have no idea how much stuff will be left on the bottom of the keg once its finished.

Normally I end up with about 1/4" layer of yeast on the bottom of my secondary after about two weeks. And that alone is enough justification for me to use a secondary and keep that out of the keg.

 

[Chairman Cheyco]

I've started going the long primary no secondary route (because Jamil said to ) and I can tell you that the first brew I've tried has been really good. I've only tried one so far, but I have more in the pipe and I'll let you know how they are.

 

[Truble]

How long are your ferments?

 

[Desert_Sky]

How long did you let it sit Cheyco? 10 days? More?

 

[kornkob]

I've tried going direct to keg and not been happy with the results, honestly. I ended up with the yeast, hops fragments and other particulates gumming up the dip tube. Just not able to get the trub to blow out.

I prefer to use a secondary to clear that stuff. I still get some sediment but no where near as much.

 

[Chairman Cheyco]

The one I tried was a standard bitter with an OG of 1.042. It was in primary for 8 days and then I put it straight into the keg - it had already cleared. I chilled and carbed it and was drinking it a couple days later. My brother asked me when I had brewed it and he was shocked to hear that it was only the week before last. I was trying to replicate the BYO article from last month where they say you can go from grain to glass in as little as a week. There are a couple reasons I think this one worked out: 1) I used Nottingham yeast, it's fast and has high flocculation characteristics, and 2) Standard bitters tend to mature quickly anyway.
I have found that you can make good beer quickly, just don't get greedy with the gravity and keep things simple.

 

[Truble]

That is interesting. I do not keg yet, so I am relegated to bottling. The first batch that I ever brewed was primary only, and it was great. I think that my beers since have been better, and I use a secondary now, but I am wondering how much has to do with just learning to brew better beer.

I might have to try a batch with primary only again and see what happens.

 

[Desert_Sky]

interesting. I read that article and was considering it. Hmm...I may give that a shot to re-up my cache once I finish moving.

 

[Monk]

I'm interested in trying this, too. I think I have the right batch for it: a blonde ale with OG 1.037 and used Munton & Fison active ale yeast (quick ferment/high flocculation). Maybe I'll just leave it in primary for 1.5-2 weeks. I keep hearing about these "big shots" like Jamil using only primary fermenters for low grav ales. Also, it's quite easy to see how some particular practice becomes homebrewing orthodoxy very quick without a lot of experimentation into contrary practices. After all, not many of us want to do anything that would make a batch any less tasty...

monk

 

[Chairman Cheyco]

I may give that a shot to re-up my cache once I finish moving.

That's why I did it, I was almost out after re-tooling the brewery and I hadn't brewed in 3 months!

 

[Nate]

Several times now I've gone straight from primary (1 week) to cold conditioning and they've all turned out great.

 

[Glibbidy]

For other reasons I recently racked a stout to a keg to cold conditioning after 14 days in the primary.
To make a long story short I got some 1056 yeast from a friend that may be tainted, and I figured I'd go right to the keg with it, so I can save myself some the time and hassle if I have to dump the batch if it's infected with a bug.

 

[Jaybird]

my suggestion if your going to go straight to keg is to use a (more beer) FIL 90 in your airlock about two days before your going to go to keg and lower the temp on your fermenting fridge (you do have a fermenting fridge dont you) about 20-30 deg for the two days this will greatly inprove clearity of the keg as most final yeast should drop out due to the cold. a third day is even better.
Just a thought
JJ

 

[Spyk'd]

I'm sure david_42 will be here shortly to chime in as he uses kegs as secondaries. There was a good thread on this awhile back, but I'll be damned if I could find it in the 4,000+ post of his.


I tend to side with the "keep the crap out of my keg" crowd. I mean, you don't have to clean it out if it never goes in, right?


:cross:

 

[Glibbidy]

I tend to side with the "keep the crap out of my keg" crowd. I mean, you don't have to clean it out if it never goes in, right?

Ooooooh, man now you got me thinking about conical fermenters!
Now if I could only find the discretionary income to justify such a purchase.

 

[the_bird]

BrewPastor's got a couple for sale, FYI.

 

[Spyk'd]

Ooooooh, man now you got me thinking about conical fermenters!
Now if I could only find the discretionary income to justify such a purchase.

I was also looking into them. Just think about how you're going to cool them (unless you're 'cool' with glycol-har!).

Other than the cooling issues, they are awesome for getting out the trub and also for yeast harvesting. Just open the valve and voila!

:cross:

 

[Glibbidy]

I was also looking into them. Just think about how you're going to cool them (unless you're 'cool' with glycol-har!).

Hmmm a glycol chiller, now I'm gonna need to find even more discretionary income. How do I explain to my wife I need a second job to purchase more equipment? Anyone know anything about writing proposals for a grant from Uncle Sam? There's gotta be a way!

 

[david_42]

I almost always go straight to keg after 14-21 days in the primary. Except for a barleywine, most ales are completely done and well settled. I don't bottle much, so I can't compare results.

I tend to strain the ale as it goes into the keg with a very fine strainer. The only time there has been a problem was a blackberry cider. I now have a special keg with a filter on the pipe just for Revenge!

As far as cleaning goes, a little yeast in the bottom is not big deal. Just like bottles.

 

[Blender]

I have been going with longer primary ferments and less secondary. Since I started using a glass carboy I can still see fermentation happening after 10 days so I have been just leaving it for several more days. I still bottle so I do transfer the beer to secondary but I now do this for less time and just to clear up the brew a bit more.

 

[Ol' Grog]

OK, I'm new and I was told by my local sensei to rack to secondary. I'm doing only extract with partial mini-mash. One week in primary, one week in secondary then bottle and sit for 2 weeks. I racked after the first week and there was a lot of trub, as expected, in the primary. I checked the secondary last night and there was quite a bit of trub in there as well. To me, I can see the signs of clearing because of more trub in the secondary. Also, this is just a speculation on my part, my primary had pretty much finished fermenting. When I racked to secondary, fermentation took off again for about a day.