Secondard Fermenter and Hydro readings.

[jruffatto]

Just boiled my first batch ever on Saturday, an IPA. It started bubbling about 20 hours later and instantly smelled like an IPA. It still smells but the bubbling has slowed. I know that a bubbling airlock doesn't make a good indicator of anything, other than CO2 coming out, but I want to transfer to a secondary fermenter at some point. I've read 5-7 after boil, or when bubbling slows but doesn't stop. But at this point it's slowed considerably, yet hasn't been 5-7 days. Can I pop the top and take a hydro reading or should I just wait a day or two, then transfer and take a reading?

 

[jtlawlor]

Can I pop the top and take a hydro reading or should I just wait a day or two, then transfer and take a reading?

Personally, especially in my first couple batches... I took the top off quickly, and took a sample several times during primary. You just have to make sure what you are using for extracting a sample is CLEAN and as sanitary as possible (StarStan). I am all for knowing what your beer is doing (hydro reading) and how it tastes, smells and looks. (Just don't freak out if it isn't awesome yet, it wont be!)

Also, personally if this is your first beer - I recommend NOT using a secondary... just a higher chance of contamination (in my opinion). Just leaving in there for 3 weeks (if you can wait) then bottle/Keg!!!

Good Luck.

 

[jruffatto]

how long did you leave it in the bottle after taking it out of the primary?

 

[ChshreCat]

If you're going to secondary (you certainly don't have to in many brews) you don't want to transfer until the beer is finished fermenting and is at a stable SG, so you definitely want to do a hydrometer sample first and then transfer to secondary, not the other way around.

Or just leave it for 3 or 4 weeks in primary.

 

[jruffatto]

If you're going to secondary (you certainly don't have to in many brews) you don't want to transfer until the beer is finished fermenting and is at a stable SG, so you definitely want to do a hydrometer sample first and then transfer to secondary, not the other way around.

Or just leave it for 3 or 4 weeks in primary.

3-4 weeks is so long to wait! And then 2 weeks in the bottle right?!

 

[earwig]

Most kits say to leave it in the primary for 2 weeks and then bottle for another 2. I have brewed beer at a local place here in NJ called "The Brewer's Apprentice" but I just recently got my own equipment. Anyway, I have bottled after 2 weeks and had awesome results... so I do wonder why people say to leave it in the fermenter for so long.

 

[jtlawlor]

3-4 weeks is so long to wait! And then 2 weeks in the bottle right?!

I totally understand!!! Note: for my first couple brews I bottled at 2 weeks. (Now after you get a pipeline going - it is a little easier to wait). I knew it was a little green and I got lucky with no major off flavors (buttery, etc etc). I also started trying my beer after 1 week in the bottle... expecting not much carbonation etc... BUT I looked at it like an experiment, so that I could tell the difference between green and finished beer.

By the end of my first batch - the beer had improved greatly! Personally, do what you want - it will be beer. Might not be the greatest... but you made it, and that is satisfying.

Oh and yeah - at least 2 weeks in the bottle - 3 is much better. Go look at Revvy's Bottling tips - and there is also a YouTube vid on the difference week to week on bottled beer.

 

[jruffatto]

I totally understand!!!

I know that brewing is for patient people and I certainly don't want to rush it. Can I pop the lid this weekend let's say and take a hydro reading, or would I be better off just waiting until 2 or 3 weeks is up to take it then? i know that i need to monitor it to make sure it's not dropping any longer before I bottle it but I didn't want to pop the top too early for any reason if i didn't have to or shouldn't

 

[jtlawlor]

Can I pop the lid this weekend let's say and take a hydro reading, or would I be better off just waiting until 2 or 3 weeks is up to take it then?

As I said before - as long as you open the top quickly to get your sample and ANYTHING that touches the beer is sanitized - you will be fine... today, next week - 2 weeks ... anytime - just make sure it is sanitized. I use a spray bottle of distilled water and starsan. (Which I mix in a gallon jug bought at the store with StarSan... keeps much better)
RDWHAHB!

 

[jruffatto]

As I said before - as long as you open the top quickly to get your sample and ANYTHING that touches the beer is sanitized - you will be fine... today, next week - 2 weeks ... anytime - just make sure it is sanitized. I use a spray bottle of distilled water and starsan. (Which I mix in a gallon jug bought at the store with StarSan... keeps much better)
RDWHAHB!

Awesome, thanks

 

[Boerderij_Kabouter]

If you're going to secondary (you certainly don't have to in many brews) you don't want to transfer until the beer is finished fermenting and is at a stable SG, so you definitely want to do a hydrometer sample first and then transfer to secondary, not the other way around.

Do not do this. If you are going to use a secondary fermentation schedule, you want to transfer when about 2/3-3/4 of the fermentables are eaten. This is usually when the air-lock is kicking out about 4-5 bubbles per minute. Transferring at this point while provide a good environment which active fermentation. The continuing fermentation will "scrub" your beer of CO2, inhibit oxygen absorption, and limit contamination risk.

If you wait till final gravity is reached you lose those benefits and subject your beer to more risks IMO.

If you are not comfortable with using a secondary fermentation schedule, I recommend leaving the beer in the primary for 3 weeks.

IMO, using a clearing tank (transfer to secondary after FG is reached) is a much more advanced technique with more downside for the average brewer. However, I recognize I am in the minority with this view. I have a blog that describes in more detail how a secondary fermentation schedule works.

 

[ChshreCat]

I agree to disagree with our friend above me there... mainly because I can't argue with someone who's name I can't pronounce. Taking the beer off the yeast cake before it's done fermenting can slow and/or stop the fermentation and cause more problems than it solves. Everyone has their own process though so try different things out and see what works for you.

I can totally agree with the donkey guy's recommendation on just doing a long primary. Can't really go wrong with that. I do both... primary for 3 weeks and then do a short secondary for a week after that just to clear it a bit more and give it a little bulk aging time.

As to the wait being too long....

It only has to be long the first time! That's the beauty of "the pipeline". Get your next brew lined up and started, and the next and the next. So you aren't worried about waiting for the one in primary or the one sitting in bottles (three weeks, btw) because you have the batch before that that's just gotten ready to drink to occupy you. Plus the batch before THAT that's REALLY getting good now. Then there's the ones you cellered from last summer to try out. etc.

 

[Boerderij_Kabouter]

I agree to disagree with our friend above me there... mainly because I can't argue with someone who's name I can't pronounce. Taking the beer off the yeast cake before it's done fermenting can slow and/or stop the fermentation and cause more problems than it solves. Everyone has their own process though so try different things out and see what works for you.

This is the misconception and the reason I wrote my blog about it. The yeast that settles out of solution is not doing anything for you. By transferring to a secondary vessel while still fermenting you bring the highly attenuating yeast with the beer into the secondary while leaving the dead and dormant yeasts behind along with any trub.

This is essentially equivalent to a pro brewer dumping yeast out of a conical. I think secondary fermentation has really been bashed at HBT and my efforts to talk about how to properly utilize a two-stage fermentation schedule have fallen mostly flat. Oh well.

 

[ChshreCat]

This is the misconception and the reason I wrote my blog about it. The yeast that settles out of solution is not doing anything for you. By transferring to a secondary vessel while still fermenting you bring the highly attenuating yeast with the beer into the secondary while leaving the dead and dormant yeasts behind along with any trub.

This is essentially equivalent to a pro brewer dumping yeast out of a conical. I think secondary fermentation has really been bashed at HBT and my efforts to talk about how to properly utilize a two-stage fermentation schedule have fallen mostly flat. Oh well.

Hey, there are many ways to do things and I'm the last guy that'll argue with other methods unless they seem completely insane or go against 100% proven facts. I just speak from my experiences and what I've seen happen with my brews and those I know.

I would heartily encourage anyone to read your blog posts on the subject and try any methods on their own and see how they work out. I did not mean at all to try to shoo anyone away from what you're saying and doing.

 

[jruffatto]

This is the misconception and the reason I wrote my blog about it. The yeast that settles out of solution is not doing anything for you. By transferring to a secondary vessel while still fermenting you bring the highly attenuating yeast with the beer into the secondary while leaving the dead and dormant yeasts behind along with any trub.

This is essentially equivalent to a pro brewer dumping yeast out of a conical. I think secondary fermentation has really been bashed at HBT and my efforts to talk about how to properly utilize a two-stage fermentation schedule have fallen mostly flat. Oh well.

In the instructions that I got with my Brewer's Best ingredient box, it tells you to wait until bubbling has slowed, but not totally stopped, before transferring to a secondary if you so choose. But then the bubbling slowed much sooner than I expected. And it has pretty much stopped now. But I came on here and looked into a few things and most people seemed to agree that a bubbling airlock isn't the best indicator of how things are going in the fermenter. I guess after 5 days I could take a hydrometer reading and see how things are shaping up in there.

 

[Boerderij_Kabouter]

Hey, there are many ways to do things and I'm the last guy that'll argue with other methods unless they seem completely insane or go against 100% proven facts. I just speak from my experiences and what I've seen happen with my brews and those I know.

I would heartily encourage anyone to read your blog posts on the subject and try any methods on their own and see how they work out. I did not mean at all to try to shoo anyone away from what you're saying and doing.

I didn't mean to sounds harsh or anything. Secondary is just a very misunderstood practice in the HB world. I try to clear that up when I can. I do primary only a lot too.

In the instructions that I got with my Brewer's Best ingredient box, it tells you to wait until bubbling has slowed, but not totally stopped, before transferring to a secondary if you so choose. But then the bubbling slowed much sooner than I expected. And it has pretty much stopped now. But I came on here and looked into a few things and most people seemed to agree that a bubbling airlock isn't the best indicator of how things are going in the fermenter. I guess after 5 days I could take a hydrometer reading and see how things are shaping up in there.

Personally, I find the airlock to be a good indicator in my system. However, I know how my system works and see the consistency. It is not an absolute indicator of anything without prior knowledge of fermentation in general and your system in particular.

That said, if it is no longer bubbling at all, I would say you are best off waiting 2 more weeks in primary then transferring to a cleaning tank, or bottling.

Taking a gravity reading is super easy and low risk. Just sanitize everything and don't dump the beer back in the fermenter. Drink it to start better understanding each stage of the process.

Cheers!

 

[ChshreCat]

+1 on the gravity reading. The airlock is usually right, but you could have a stuck ferment and it might not be done. You don't want to find that out after bottling, for sure. Take a sample, check the SG and drink it!

 

[jruffatto]

+1 on the gravity reading. The airlock is usually right, but you could have a stuck ferment and it might not be done. You don't want to find that out after bottling, for sure. Take a sample, check the SG and drink it!

But what will an SG reading tell me exactly? I've got the OG reading. again, excuse me for any dumb questions b/c i'm totally new at this

 

[ChshreCat]

Well, your recipe should have an estimate on what your final gravity should be. Taking a reading will tell you if it's reached this point or not. It will also let you take another reading in a couple days to a week and see if your gravity is stable. If your expected FG is 1.015 and your SG is currently 1.023, you might have a problem that needs to be addressed.

 

[brewagentjay]

I agree with both you need to read on here and anywhere else you can. Get the brew book....I think Palmer or something mine next to my fermenterrs as I use it as reference. Key is to figure out how you want to do it or what works for you. You can take readings as much as you want really as long as your safe with keeping things sanitized. I do mean sanitized.

So I have 3 batches going. I have one I will bottle this weekend if all goes well. I'm kinda going with the Cat on my process. I'm go nearly 16 days in primary and little over 10 days in secondary. It's a process and I plan on making it routine as long as it turns out good. I figure it's easier to get a process down while I'm building pipeline which sort of forces me to wait.

What I have learned is I get ton of fall out in primary or aka Yeast Cake. I get another one in secondary. So I'm assuming beer is getting cleaner. The Airlock is a good thing to look at as far as is my beer doing what it should be in the begining. After it stops or slows to small bubbles, it's still doing it's thing just not enough for tons of CO2 to escape. Your SG readings are your friend at this point. Also you'll see small bubbles coming up from your brew once you pop the top.

Now I have enjoyed the secondary as I see more and learn more as it goes. So I'll continue to use it cause as long as I keep things sanitized it can't hurt.

I love drinking my samples. Last night I had two samples one from my first batch and one from my second. It's like christmas for me as I have none in bottles yet.

It's confusing getting started but I recommend just take some time and figure out a schedule or process that is going to fit your life and use it for now and tune it as you go. Doing that has made things get less confusing and helped me learn and enjoy the hobby....

Just my two cents from a guy who was in your shoes on Jan 30th as I brewed my first batch.

Enjoy it and you'll be fine. Oh and if you get a question ask it here because it seems someone is always online here at HBT.

 

[jruffatto]

My gravity dropped from 6 to 3 so I think I'm in good shape. It all smells like beer and looks like beer so I popped the lid back on and put the airlock back and i'll leave it for another week or so...thanks all.

 

[ChshreCat]

3 plato? I don't usually measure in plato so it's hard to wrap my little brain around it, but that sounds good. If it's stable after a few days or a week, you're probably good to bottle when you're ready.