Second batch; poor mash efficiency questions.

[GorillaMedic]

We had a 54% efficiency our first batch, mostly related (we think) to horrible temperature issues.

This batch, we achieved 66% efficiency with the following setup and process:

1) preheated rectangular cooler fitted with bazooka screen using about a quart of so of 180° water.
2) dumped that water, then added 5.5 gallons of 170° water, then poured in grain bill while stirring.
3) temp was higher than we wanted (160°) so we added a couple quarts of room temp (80°) water. Got a temp of 154°;
3) covered and let sit for about 75 minutes (15 more than our target, related to process issues with getting water heated and into our elevated HLT).
4) Vorlauft, then fly sparged using a DIY sparge arm that seemed to work decently well. Used 7 gallons of water at 170°, took 28 minutes.
5) kettle volume was now about 9 gallons. We put another 3-ish gallons through at 170° until achieving a preboil gallon of about 12 gallons.

A few things I know we need to improve:

- better water heating and moving processes
- maybe stir once or twice during mash
- using a better collection system that catches more of the grain bed than the bazooka.
- actually being able to measure accurate volume in the kettle.

What else can we do? 66% is incredibly frustrating when I'm seeing folks here with coolers and such getting high 70s and above.

 

[Yooper]

The biggest issue I see is trying to fly sparge with a rectangular cooler and a bazooka screen.

The set up is more conducive to a batch sparge set up, since channeling and needing a false bottom isn't an issue with batch sparging.

I would bet that the fly sparging is what is killing your efficiency. The mash efficiency is probably fine, based on what you wrote. But the lautering efficiency sounds problematic.

 

[Stillraining]

How much grain and what kind and what were your hydrometer readings? Without that we cant help you know if your miscalculating.

Your basic system is exactly like mine..except I batch sparge...I'm always at 90%

My gut tells me your either miscalculating or your crush was horrible. A small flutter with temp like you had didn't really affect anything.

 

[GorillaMedic]

17 lbs of 2-row; 18 oz of cara/crystal.

1.040 (I think) pre-boil.

 

[Stillraining]

Well sounds like you don't really know what you had then...Beating yourself up on "I think" does you no good mate. This is the part of brewing that analytical people excel at as they are nit-picky when it comes to accuracy. I'm not one of those people for the most part, but I do my absolute best when brewing, as I want to know and have repeatable results.

Correcting for temperature during your readings is very important...Did you do that? A .040 at 120 degrees is a .050 using a 60 degree calibrated hydrometer and .050 is what you should have gotten with that grist with a 11 gal final batch size.

Id take both Yoopers advice and either ditch fly sparging altogether and batch sparge "or" move to a round false bottom cooler... But most importantly next time making dead sure of all your numbers before you worry yourself to much on changing any of it. Just make sure you know your crush is good from the get go. There should be some fine powder in your crush.

If I may suggest an experiment for your next batch.

1) Crush grain twice if in doubt
2) Batch sparge only, using everything you have now Bazooka screen/Cooler
3) Take running's samples...rather that's 2 , 3 or 4 of them and correctly adjust for temp.
4) Keep batch sparging till you reach your boil volume needed.....just adding 3 gallons of water to make up volume like you did is not doing your mash efficiency any favors. My 3rd running's batch sparging to hit my boil volumes are never below the .010 threshold that's touted to be important when fly sparging. So that means I'm still reclaiming "and" leaving some sugars behind even after 13 gallons of water have ran through my batch sparging process. Which is always 3 separate sparges for my 11 gallon batches and normally finishes around a .012 or higher.
5) Be spot on with your readings as well as your water volumes. I have one hydrometer but 3 hydrometer vials....That way I can leave all my samples undisturbed on my counter throughout my brewing process and know that I know what I'm getting. Even if I forget to write it down at the time. Now I have all three of my running's available for a re-check if needed and once I have those all confirmed and adjusted for temperature and written down, only then do I return them to the boil pot..Then I mix well and collect a pre-boil and a final boil once again leaving in two separate vials on the counter for re-checking if necessary...The pre-boil gets tossed the post boil returned to the pot for cooling with everything else.

Try the above and report back with your findings...Id be shocked if your not at least in the mid 80's

Edit...One last thought make sure your screen is touching the bottom of your cooler...not all coolers are favorable for use as a mash tun....Your sweetest wort will be trapped on the bottom if not. And stir well each sparge like you stated. I have a slight tip to my cooler throughout my sparge process to try to get the sweet stuff to the valve end as well.

 

[eric19312]

Be spot on with your readings as well as your water volumes. I have one hydrometer but 3 hydrometer vials....That way I can leave all my samples undisturbed on my counter throughout my brewing process and know that I know what I'm getting. Even if I forget to write it down at the time. AS of now I have all three of my running's available for a re check if needed and once I have those all confirmed and written down only then do I return them to the boil pot..Then I mix well and collect a pre-boil and a final boil once again leaving in two separate vials...The per-boil gets tossed the post boil returned to the pot for cooling with everything else.

Wow Stillraining I agree with most of your post but have to suggest you seem to be a good candidate for getting a refractometer.

OP - getting a good handle on measurements including gravity (preboil, original and final) and volumes (preboil, post boil, into fermentor, package) are key to evaluating your process.

 

[Stillraining]

Wow Stillraining I agree with most of your post but have to suggest you seem to be a good candidate for getting a refractometer.

OP - getting a good handle on measurements including gravity (preboil, original and final) and volumes (preboil, post boil, into fermentor, package) are key to evaluating your process.

LOL...I own one, but have never even taken it out of its box or read its directions... See, I told you I was not one of those people..:fro:

 

[Stillraining]

OK brewed yesterday and did the experiment I promised..here are the results.

IR measurements.................Corrected to 60...................Actual 60 readings

1st running's......1.066 @ 113...............1.077......................................1.080

2nd running's.... 1.020 @ 129................1.031......................................1.030

3rd running s.....1.004 @ 129.................1.016.....................................1.015

Pre-Boil............ 1.030 @ 116................1.039.....................................1.040

Post boil............1.035 @ 127................1.047.....................................1.048

So there are some slight inconsistencies and its not linear...but for a non meticulous guy like me I will never wait for samples to cool ever again. Corrected IR readings are Close enough for me. YMMV..

I will post this to a new Topic thread as well so it is easier to find for anyone wondering the same thing.


Edit: I posted this to the wrong thread..sorry

OP..FWIW we hit a 91.7 % mash efficiency. I know you can too.