Scoby with embedded apple and ginger pieces ?

[mevla]

Hello all. I'm new to kombucha making although I did other fermentation such as koji, amazaké, miso, kvass, shoyu, natto, jiuniang. I did maybe 4 batches of kombucha so far and early on adopted a second fermentation, with apple and ginger pieces (plus more sugar) left at room temp for a week. I find it very delicious and am now starting a 3-liter batch as it goes away really too quickly once done. With the second batch, after a week at room temp, the apple and ginger bits floating on top were starting to hold themselves with some gelatin-like substance starting to form between them. I found that neat, so I used it for another 2nd fermentation. Results are very good.

That the apple and ginger pieces started to clump together is certainly due to the kombucha that was still in the brew. As it tries to take shape again ? If it still grows like that and starts to form a real scoby, would it be possible to keep it and use it for a long time with the bits embedded in it ? Isearched around and did not find anything relating to having bits of fruits embedded in a scoby.

Thanks for any suggestions, cheers.

 

[hottpeper13]

In the Big Book of Kombucha they suggest that if you can get a scoby and starter from other then green or black tea you should take it to 10 generations without an issue, you can use it indefinitely. I use a summer peach black tea for 1/2 my tea and 2 years and a primary every 21 days, still repitching.

 

[mevla]

Do you mean it's normal to have pieces of fruits right into the scoby, part of the scoby itself ? I haven't seen any pictures of that so far nor any mention of it.

 

[rushpapers]

Throw the pellicle away and grow another.

 

[hottpeper13]

I only put fruit and ginger in the secondary and every bottle develops a pelical, some floating on top and some mixed with the ginger on the bottom.

 

[mevla]

I only put fruit and ginger in the secondary and every bottle develops a pelical, some floating on top and some mixed with the ginger on the bottom.

This is what I hopefully described in the first post. Here are two pictures.

As I hopefully clearly mentioned, this is the 2nd fermentation, meaning that there was no scoby in there. What was added to the original kombucha brew were apple and ginger pieces, and brown sugar. What is shown above appeared spontaneously during the 1-week period at room temp, with lid on.

I was puzzled but did not threw it away. I actually used it as it was still forming itself, to make another 2nd fermentation batch which turned out to be nice. The pictures above are from that second use. The 'formation' is still forming.

I like to know how things work to a certain degree. It's not possible to know everything but it does not mean to ignore everything and just proceed blindly.

I have some fermentation experience (koji, amazake, miso, shoyu, natto, jiuniang) on a regular basis for years.

So I still have some puzzling questions.

Are these 'spontaneous' scobies useful ? Is it possible for the pieces of fruit to be kept inside this scoby, once it has formed fully, which perhaps is what it'll do, for a long time and being re-used on a regular basis for other 2nd fermentation ?

 

[rushpapers]

You need to use correct terminology to understand what is happening.

SCOBY is kombucha.
PELLICLE is what forms on top of kombucha.

A pellicle will always form on top of kombucha unless you take steps to mitigate growth. Doesn't matter if it is 1st, 2nd, 3rd fermentation etc.

Everyone needs to understand the pellicle is not SCOBY. You don't need to transfer pellicle from one batch to another. You only need to transfer SCOBY, ie fermented kombucha, ie starter tea.

If you have a pellicle with fruit stuck in it I would recommend throwing it away because if you reuse it the fruit may become rancid.

 

[pvpeacock]

rushpapers is technically correct. What forms on the top of the kombucha is a pellicle. It is the bacteria's attempt to seal the liquid from the air. However, many people call the pellicle the SCOBY so those terms have become interchangeable (accurately or not). Whenever you ferment healthy kombucha, it should grow a pellicle.

rushpapers is also correct that you should toss the fruit stuck in the pellicle from your secondary fermentation. Keep and reuse the clean pellicle from your first fermentation (the one without fruit in it) with plenty of starter tea.

Finally, there is no need to add sugar to your secondary fermentation, because the fruit has sugar in it that will ferment.

 

[mevla]

Thanks for the clarification. The statement "SCOBY is kombucha" did not made any sense for me because 'cha', historically exported from a northern access to China, is totally interchangeable with the word gotten from a southern access who heard 'te' which became in English 'tea' , both referring to a liquid substance. We use for red (black) tea 'hongcha', for green tea 'lücha', and on the Japanese side 'matcha', 'sencha', 'kamairicha', etc. While Wikipedia defines 'scoby' as the thick bacterial growth which my neighbour gave me to brew my own kombucha.

However, 'kombu' being the famous Japanese seaweed, the use of 'kombu' in 'kombucha' is still a mystery for me.

I only started last Sunday the first larger batch of kombucha (3.5l) and it's the first batch I'm doing in which the 'thing that floats on top which my neighbour gave me' ( ) will be floating horizontally. Other batches I made so far were in thighter glass jar where it was standing mostly vertically. Starting from now I should see better the reactions that people are describing here and there as it will float naturally.

Thanks again guys. Sorry for the bit about 'cha' but I had to mention why I did not understood the term.

Does it mean that all uses of the term 'scoby' we see just about everywhere is technically wrong ?

Cheers.

 

[rushpapers]

Kombu was a doctor that made it famous.
Cha generally means tea.
Kombu + cha = Kombucha

SCOBY = Symbiotic Culture Of Bacteria and Yeast.

The tea in your fermentation vessel is SCOBY. In every drop there is a mixture on average of 8 different strains of bacteria and yeast. In the vessel toward a the top and bottom they live in different concentrations. Anaerobic bacteria create a cellulose shield to keep out O2. That is the pellicle.

 

[pvpeacock]

Also don't worry if the old pellicle (SCOBY) you add to your new batch floats, sinks, turns sideways or does whatever. It doesn't matter. What matters is that your kombucha grows a new pellicle across the top. This requires enough starter tea. Each time you make a new batch or disturb the kombucha, it will grow a new pellicle. As you accumulate pellicles (SCOBY's) you can throw some away or keep some in a separate jar with kombucha (a SCOBY Hotel) in case you need a new one.

I have a primary fermenter that holds 6 gallons of tea/kombucha. When it reaches the taste I like (usually 7-10 days), I remove 2 1/2 gallons and put it in a separate fermenter with fruit, spices or whatever my recipe calls for. I then add 2 1/2 - 3 gallons of new sweet tea to my primary fermenter to fill it back up. After 5-7 days, I keg the fruit kombucha and toss the fruit and pellicle. I then repeat the cycle. I also keep about 6 pellicles (SCOBY's) in a gallon jar full of kombucha and every few months I add some sweet tea. That way I have spare pellicles if I ever need one for a new batch or to share with a friend.

 

[mevla]

Hello. I've now made a full 2nd fermentation batch using large 3.5l glass jugs (with spigots) in which the SCOBY floats horizontally. Previous batches were made in narrow containers in which the SCOBY was vertical. Now I can see what is meant by "pellicle'. Previously there was some stuff dangling, but not an actual pellicle, not a covering film on top. That pellicle is very thin and is found flat on top of the SCOBY. I discarded it.

I have noticed that a second SCOBY is forming underneath the main SCOBY. Maybe about 3mm, 1/8" thick when I saw it. I left it there for the second batch.

Thanks again for all the advice, much appreciated, cheers.

 

[pvpeacock]

Congrats. The stuff dangling down is most likely yeast strands which are normal and part of the fermentation process.

 

[hottpeper13]

The new scoby is the one on top