Schwarzbier - Examples in the Midwest

[Rob2010SS]

Looking to brew styles that are outside of my comfort realm. Schwarzbier is one of them. However, I've never had a schwarzbier so it'll be hard for me to brew one without ever having one. I'm in the Midwest, anyone know of any good commercial examples that I should seek out?

Also open to recipes if anyone has any links to good recipes they've made.

Thanks.

 

[grampamark]

New Belgium 1554 and Sam Adams Black Lager should be pretty easy to find.

A Schwarzbier is, essentially, a cold fermented Stout.

 

[VikeMan]

Midwest... maybe Sprecher Black Bavarian (Wisconsin)?

 

[Rob2010SS]

Thanks!

You know, reading the BJCP of Schwarzbier, I thought that as well, a lagered porter or stout. However, the BJCP states...

So to me, that makes it confusing. I think due to my lack of experience with Schwarzbier, that makes it confusing.

 

[Rob2010SS]

Midwest... maybe Sprecher Black Bavarian (Wisconsin)?

Ohhhh Ok, yeah, the wife and I go there quite a bit. I've seen the Black Bavarian but never had it. I'll give that a shot.

 

[VikeMan]

You know, reading the BJCP of Schwarzbier, I thought that as well, a lagered porter or stout. However, the BJCP states...

View attachment 720130

So to me, that makes it confusing.

I would say the biggest differences (besides yeast character) are the level of Roast and the bitterness, both a little lower in a Schwarzbier than in a typical porter. But there are certainly examples that would contradict that.

 

[dmtaylor]

Midwest... maybe Sprecher Black Bavarian (Wisconsin)?

YES, that's a good one.

Bull Falls of Wausau, WI also makes a very good one called Midnight Star. Worth seeking out if you are ever in the area.

Ideally, a great schwarzbier should not taste super roasty. It should drink similar to a dunkel, but with just enough dark roasted grains to take it to another level, with brown to dark brown color. I would say jet black color would be much too dark. "Schwarz" bier (it means "black") is a little bit of a misnomer really. For a traditional version, a deep brown color is actually perfect. Otherwise you are indeed heading into porter territory. Which is just fine... IF you actually prefer porter.

For these reasons, it can be challenging to make a truly great schwarzbier, because you want it dark and interesting but without a ton of roasty flavor. But when done right... what a great style. And well, whatever... if you handed me something more like a porter or stout, I'm still going to drink it and enjoy it anyway.

 

[camonick]

Shiner 97 (Bohemian Black Lager) is listed as a Schwarzbier. They are good.

 

[rmr9]

Köstritzer is a classic example and I think it’s pretty widely distributed. I’ve seen it in the 16oz cans and even those 5L mini kegs. I would go for that for a perspective on a more restrained version.

 

[Rob2010SS]

Köstritzer is a classic example and I think it’s pretty widely distributed. I’ve seen it in the 16oz cans and even those 5L mini kegs. I would go for that for a perspective on a more restrained version.

When I searched for Schwarzbier on Instagram, this is probably the one that came up the most. Lots of people like that one. I'll see if it's at Binny's or something and pick it up.

YES, that's a good one.

Bull Falls of Wausau, WI also makes a very good one called Midnight Star. Worth seeking out if you are ever in the area.

Ideally, a great schwarzbier should not taste super roasty. It should drink similar to a dunkel, but with just enough dark roasted grains to take it to another level, with brown to dark brown color. I would say jet black color would be much too dark. "Schwarz" bier (it means "black") is a little bit of a misnomer really. For a traditional version, a deep brown color is actually perfect. Otherwise you are indeed heading into porter territory. Which is just fine... IF you actually prefer porter.

For these reasons, it can be challenging to make a truly great schwarzbier, because you want it dark and interesting but without a ton of roasty flavor. But when done right... what a great style. And well, whatever... if you handed me something more like a porter or stout, I'm still going to drink it and enjoy it anyway.

This is some good info. Thanks @dmtaylor . It definitely helps point me in the right direction. I can see where this would be a challenging style to nail!

 

[JohnDBrewer]

How about the difference between a Schwarzbier and a czech dark or amber lager?

 

[Beermeister32]

This is a bit of a repeat, but I think Kostrizer defines the style and is available most areas.

This is a clone of Köstritzer Schwarzbier. It came out IDENTICAL and I do mean identical. Brewed in May 2020, then 5 months aging really improves the fantastic taste! Same flavor, same color, same head, lacing, etc. 3 people agreed, this one was spot on. Shown here, mine on the left, actual on the right. Recipe was a compilation of several internet recipes, final tweaking done on Brewer's Friend:

 

[Steveruch]

Some people brew Schwartzbier like it's a black pilsner.

 

[dmtaylor]

This is a bit of a repeat, but I think Kostrizer defines the style and is available most areas.

This is a clone of Köstritzer Schwarzbier. It came out IDENTICAL and I do mean identical. Brewed in May 2020, then 5 months aging really improves the fantastic taste! Same flavor, same color, same head, lacing, etc. 3 people agreed, this one was spot on.

Looks great man! Recipe or it didn't happen. Please.

 

[Beermeister32]

I’ll get it for you tomorrow...

 

[Craiginthecorn]

A Schwarzbier is, essentially, a cold fermented Stout.

Nonsense. A Schwarzbier is significantly more bitter and has dark color, but relatively little dark roast character, and has much higher levels of carbonation.

 

[Craiginthecorn]

I’ll get it for you tomorrow...

Looking forward to seeing that recipe! I made a decent Schwarzbier last summer, but I prefer the roast flavor profile of Köstritzer, which IMO is a fantastic bargain.

 

[VikeMan]

A Schwarzbier is, essentially, a cold fermented Stout.

Nonsense. A Schwarzbier is significantly more bitter and has dark color, but relatively little dark roast character, and has much higher levels of carbonation.

From BJCP 2015 guidelines, with computed median BU/GU ratios added...

8B. Schwarzbier. IBUs: 20 – 30 OG: 1.046 – 1.052 (BU/GU: 0.51)
15B. Irish Stout. IBUs: 25 – 45 OG: 1.036 – 1.044 (BU/GU: 0.87)
16A. Sweet Stout. IBUs: 20 – 40 OG: 1.044 – 1.060 (BU/GU: 0.58)
16B. Oatmeal Stout. IBUs: 25 – 40 OG: 1.045 – 1.065 (BU/GU: 0.59)
20B. American Stout. IBUs: 35 – 75 OG: 1.050 – 1.075 (BU/GU: 0.88)

Perhaps "significantly more bitter" isn't the best evidence of the assertion of nonsense.

 

[Craiginthecorn]

Perhaps "significantly more bitter" isn't the best evidence of the assertion of nonsense.

I stand corrected. But the rest is utter gobbledygook. .

 

[rmr9]

I think regardless of straight up BJCP stats, brewing a stout with a lager yeast won’t make a proper schwartzbier. It would likely be too roasty for the style.

 

[Dgallo]

It’s an amazing style. I just entered my in a competition. Scoring and awards are on the 14th.

simple is better;
Pilsner, Munich, and Carafa (60%, 34-36% Munich 1, 4-6% Carafa 2 or 3)

I may have gone a touch to dark on mine but I really enjoy it.

 

[BongoYodeler]

I designed and brewed a pseudo-Schwarzbier recipe based on a few recipes I saw online. Since I'm not set up to easily ferment at lager temps I fermented with Lutra Kveik yeast. This was brewed and kegged back in early September, but only recently hitting it's prime. Looks a bit darker than it is, but it's still fairly dark, Beersmith estimates 25 SRM, (style guidelines list 17-30). Despite the darkness I'm not getting a ton of roastiness. The predominate flavor coming through is from the Munich Malt.

A recent picture....

 

[Craiginthecorn]

I gathered about 20 recipes last year from sources like BYO, Craft Beer and Brewing, and Zymurgy. The majority were basically a typical German malt bill, plus some debittered roasted grain for color. They may make excellent Schwarzbieren but I was hoping to emulate Köstritzer, which has more roasted flavor than I expect Carafa Special or Midnight Wheat would impart at the modest levels used in most examples.

 

[Dgallo]

I gathered about 20 recipes last year from sources like BYO, Craft Beer and Brewing, and Zymurgy. The majority were basically a typical German malt bill, plus some debittered roasted grain for color. They may make excellent Schwarzbieren but I was hoping to emulate Köstritzer, which has more roasted flavor than I expect Carafa Special or Midnight Wheat would impart at the modest levels used in most examples.

Literally just polished off the last of my Köstritzer. Do they make different varieties of it? (The cans I got were newer, Nov. and look nothing like the bottles or cans I’ve seen before. Anyway, I genuinely believe the roast character is quite low. Its also not very dark so I don’t believe there is much dark grain used. Definitely dark chocolate character but no deep roast/burnt character, leads me to believe it’s Carafa.

Also Carafa 2 (400L) and 3 (525+L) do provide roast flavors, they just don’t contribute Burnt and astringent character

these are what my cans looked like. I think it was 6.99/4pack

 

[VikeMan]

Since we're talking about Carafa malt... folks should keep in mind that there are actually 6 different Carafa malts, and ambiguity in recipes and advice sometimes leads to disappointment with Carafa(s).

Carafa I	300 - 375L
Carafa II	413 - 450L
Carafa III	488 - 563L
Carafa Special I	300 - 375L
Carafa Special II	413 - 450L
Carafa Special III	488 - 563L

Note that Carafa and Carafa Special are both available in the same three roast levels. The difference is that the "regular" Carafas are essentially regular old Chocolate/Black Patent type malts, while the "special" versions are dehusked and thus less roasty than their "regular" counterparts.

 

[Dgallo]

Since we're talking about Carafa malt... folks should keep in mind that there are actually 6 different Carafa malts, and ambiguity in recipes and advice sometimes leads to disappointment with Carafa(s).

Carafa I	300 - 375L
Carafa II	413 - 450L
Carafa III	488 - 563L
Carafa Special I	300 - 375L
Carafa Special II	413 - 450L
Carafa Special III	488 - 563L

Note that Carafa and Carafa Special are both available in the same three roast levels. The difference is that the "regular" Carafas are essentially regular old Chocolate/Black Patent type malts, while the "special" versions are dehusked and thus less roasty than their "regular" counterparts.

Agreed. I will take the blame for my ambiguity. When I speak on Carafa malts I’m always referring to Carafa special. I would assume most in the US are referring to Carafa Special when they refer to using Carafa malts. But again, you know what they say about assuming

 

[Beermeister32]

Here ya go ... This one is right on...

 

[Dgallo]

@Beermeister32
Köstritzer is brewed to the German purity laws, so that would eliminate dextrose being added. Everything else looks solid though

 

[Beermeister32]

Yup, just a small tweak..!

 

[Rob2010SS]

Lots of great info here! Thanks for sharing. I definitely want to give one of these a go. Thanks for sharing your recipe @Beermeister32