Schizandra Jasmine Lemon Berry Wormwood Ale!

[ThinkinDavid]

Last night at brew club there was a huge stash of herbs and spices from one of the local breweries, New Belgium, that were too old for them to use but plenty fresh for us. Here’s what I was able to grab: Lemon Grass, Lemon Verbena, Lemon Peel, Schizandra Berry, Jasmine Flower and Wormwood.

I have a $h!^ ton considering what it will take to spice a single batch. Any suggestions for using any of these in a beer? I thought I might get some ideas in Radical Brewing and Extreme Brewing but neither one really offers anything. I already searched for wormwood on the forums and among some of the comments was this:

“IIRC, Springboard , from New Belgium lists wormwood as one of the ingredients. I had it last summer and didn't particularly care for it.”

I never had Springboard but I’m interested in using wormwood. Wormwood Pale Ale? I don’t know. Any thoughts or ideas?

 

[as_saturn_ascends]

I will tell you this.... lick your finger. dip it in the wormwood if its powdered and taste that. If its leaves just lick one. It is the second most bitter herb on earth. It makes a horrid tea that is very medicinal. It has been used for centuries in making beer. If you use it, dont use much. it will bitter your beer fast!

It does look like you have some good stuff to mix up and try. I make a Crazy Mountain Man beer with over 20 different spices in it and its off the hook! experiment.

My plan would be this:

Lots of Munich and Vienna.
a touch of pale, carapils, and caramel malt
biscuit malt
lemon peel
lemon grass
wormwood
and some spicy, earthy hops???? maybe tettnager or hallertauer............ hell even some citrusy ones. fuggles, cascade.........

sounds like you have alot of experimenting to me! have fun man.

 

[as_saturn_ascends]

PLEASE PLEASE! PM me with how much wormwood you use and let me know how strong the flavor comes out after 2 months. I have a bag of wormwood that I have been contemplating, but too scared to use.

 

[ThinkinDavid]

Thanks for the suggestions asa. I will let you know how it all turns out in the end. You’re right about the wormwood, that stuff is gross. I definitely don’t want to make a wormwood beer but I wonder if it might be good paired with the right hops. I was thinking since it’s so damn harsh anyway why not throw two grams in at the beginning of the boil with some high alpha domestic hops. Maybe even another two grams at the end of the boil with a butt load of hallertauer. There you go, wormwood pale ale. Otherwise I don’t know if it’s a good herb to add to beer at all, though I like your idea with the Vienna, Munich, Biscuit and other spices. And if anyone has any ideas for an over the top wormwood ale, or any other herbed and spiced beer, I’m all ears.

 

[as_saturn_ascends]

yeah man i think you could create a great beer with wormwood. Remember that it is probably the most widely used herb (besides hops these days) in making all kinds of spirits. you should get some yarrow and add it too. I think it would make a nice blend with the wormwood and you can pick it all over the place. You should check out this link. I think you would really enjoy it:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gruit

 

[ThinkinDavid]

You know saturn, despite the seemingly unpopularity of this post, I really think we're on to something. I like the idea of a Gruit. I wanted to try to blend the wormwood with some hops but I was also thinking of doing wormwood alone, and now that you mention it a gruit sounds much better. If you haven't already, check out http://www.gruitale.com/ they have some recipes to look at but I didn't notice any with wormwood (though I haven't looked particularly hard). Check out this link, too: http://wormwoodsociety.org/forums/index.php?showtopic=1568 His recipe seems a little off but it's a starting point for someone who has actually brewed with wormwood. Though there are a lot of nay-sayers, those who have actually tried a wormwood ale say good things about it.

I'm going to put one of these ideas into action but I think maybe I should get a 3 gal. carboy first.

 

[as_saturn_ascends]

yeah i really think you should try it out......... iam a huge herbal experimenter and have my own mixtures that are wonderful. I have used Yarrow ALOT!

I think the sweet gale sounds ridiculously great. I would love to drink a more heady feeling beer. I am sure i have seen it in the mountains up here as well.

I tend to keep this a secret, but i cant help myself. I once made an IPA (accidentally) by using Damiana. Everyone loved it. It was bitter as all hell, but had an awesome floral taste to it from the damiana.

I highly recomend experimenting with that. I have thought about substituting hops completely for Damiana if i could figure out how much to use.

 

[as_saturn_ascends]

oh, and gruitale.com is now bookmarked. kick ass link!

 

[ThinkinDavid]

So I went looking everywhere for the Yarrow and could only find it in capsule form. The cute young girl at the health food store had me convinced I should spend my evening breaking open hundreds of tiny plastic pills until I had a couple ounces of Yarrow. Luckily I realized there's obviously more than just flowers in those pills since it's meant to be swallowed and released into the stomach, some kind magnesium something. Nevertheless, I am still interested in doing a gruit and would like to find some Yarrow for it. I looked at pictures and it does seem like a very common flower that I could just pick. Since the weather is getting nicer I'll keep my eyes open but I could probably find some easily at a nursery or someplace. Anyway, how much Yarrow do you typically use and what recipes do you use it in?

I would be curious to know what other herbs/spices you would like to use in a gruit, saturn. I've come to realize that there are some very elusive spices for the gruit like the Yarrow or Bog Myrtle (anyone ever use this or know what it is?), untraditional spices that we have been talking about like wormwood, and a lot of floral spices tossed around that I would rather not use like juniper berries. While playing around with some spices for a beer yesterday I was worried that I would end up making a potpourri beer. My goal was to make a generic, lightly hopped ale and add a minimal amount of spices hoping to add just a hint of flavor. Here's what I came up with:

5.5 gallons
o.g. 1.060

5 lb Marris Otter
3 lb Pale Ale
2 lb Belgian Munich
2 lb Biscuit
1 lb Jaggery
0.5 lb Acidulated
0.25 Caramunich

1.5 oz Cascade 60 mins
0.5 oz Saaz 20 mins
1 oz Saaz 5 mins

Spices at 30 mins:
14 g Schizandra Berry powder
4 g Chamomile flowers
2 g Wormwood powder

Like I said, it seemed like a minimal amount. I figured rather than making an ultra spiced beer that will make me hate the spices I'm using (thinking back to the holidays) I would try to incorporate a hint of their flavor into a regular beer. I couldn't decide whether to add the spices during or at the end of the boil, though obviously I opted for during. In Sam C.'s Extreme Brewing he lists that Dogfish head typically uses their spices with up to 50 minutes left in the boil, but then in the actual text he mentions just using them at the end of the boil as opposed to the primary or secondary. So I may have burned off any flavor and aroma the small amount of spices would have offered but if I really want to I can steep some more and add them to the secondary. Either way I am happy with the recipe, the mix of spices smelled great while the wort was chilling.

 

[as_saturn_ascends]

Oh yeah sounds good. You will have to let me know how it turns out. I do think you will get more spices than what you want though. but on the other hand maybe not with the long boil time. I usually go with 10 min. on the herbs. just long enough to make a tea in the boil really.

I think the most herbs i have used in a beer was about 25g. the least was about 6g and it still came out really spicy.

I would think you have a solid combination though. I would be interested to see if the floral tastes stay in a 30 minute boil. and chamomile! what a great idea! Please post the final results........ alot of people forget, but i encourage you too. what an interesting brew. Should be pretty good if you ask me.

oh, and as for the other herbs and spices I use...... Man, ALOT - I frequently use a blend of herbs that contains ALOT of stuff i dont even know what is. I use alot of sage, yarrow, anise, juniper berries, cedar, mountain tobacco, licorice, etc.

alot of them are stuff that grows around here. I am going to make a modified mountain beer with stinging nettle, mint, and yarrow only. it makes a great medicinal tea that tastes just how the mountains smell. and i love the mountains. i love herbs. we pick all of our medicine up there and berries for wine. we use the water from there for our beer and wine. its wonderful. the mountains really contribute to my beer. I usually take my best bottle of beer/wine back up there and give it back to the mountain in return. a good mountain trip can really yeild alot of medicine/beer ingredients. some interesting local stuff you can put in your beer and really give it a regional taste like alot of old beers.