Sanitising fluid practice

[mac_1103]

note how it was hard work for me to get there and I had to do a lot of digging

Really?

Have a look for a product called ChemSan

 

[sibelman]

Unkind rhetoric seldom advances a discussion usefully. Nor does high sensitivity.

Cheers!

 

[OakIslandBrewery]

Back on post#2, in response to your initial question, Star San was suggested. If it's not available to you a search of a substitute available in the UK would offer some ideas. I have never been to the UK but I was able to see some alternatives available there with a search on Google.

 

[MaxStout]

How To Brew by John Palmer is widely regarded as a good book to start with.

The 4th Edition was published in 2017 and still regarded as one of the go-to books on home brewing.

 

[OakIslandBrewery]

"we dont get Starsan in Uk"

thats rediculous.

"we dont get Starsan in Uk"

thats rediculous.

View attachment 862651
Yea I am ridiculous wash up liquid with phosphoric acid and a few drops of dish wash detergent

VPW uses percarbonate only last an hour for peroxide job

Chemsan seems similar to Starsan (though they dont list their ingredients)
100mL £9.40
but it 5ml to 5 litres 0.1% ww dilution. so you get 20 flagons to last a long time - agreed





IF YOU FOLLOW WELL KNOWN PRACTICES.
Sure, where are these cardinal rules. on the Web they all contradict each other which ends up so confusing. Armchair anecdotes

READ UP ON SOME THINGS ABOUT HOMEBREWING

You might have been able to do that 20 years ago when info floating around was condensed into a little paper back - and it was simple back then

Now with the WEB what you have is 99% conflicting drivel largely commercially driven and designed to leave you completely bamboozled, and all the YT crap even worse with brewers bad habits glaringly portrayed - so much time wasted.

Which is why I have to ask dumb questions here

Active ingredients are listed here for a comparison. Again, a search of the internet, seemed easy to find.

 

[doug293cz]

View attachment 862666

Active ingredients are listed here for a comparison. Again, a search of the internet, seemed easy to find.

ChemSan is not a no-rinse sanitizer, and it just seems to be nastier in general than StarSan.

Brew on

 

[OakIslandBrewery]

ChemSan is not a no-rinse sanitizer, and it just seems to be nastier in general than StarSan.

Brew on

I never said it was.

The OP posted that ingredients weren't listed.

 

[doug293cz]

Typed the following into a browser search bar: "starsan in uk" and got the following:

So, there do appear to be multiple suppliers for the UK market.

Brew on

 

[doug293cz]

I never said it was.

The OP posted that ingredients weren't listed.

I didn't mean to imply that you did. I was only commenting on the information available on from the two label pics you posted.

Brew on

 

[OakIslandBrewery]

I didn't mean to imply that you did. I was only commenting on the information available on from the two label pics you posted.

Brew on

Fair enough. I was just pointing out to the OP that information is out there and easily found, just like your search of Star San available in the UK.

 

[Broken Crow]

 

[mac_1103]

Typed the following into a browser search bar: "starsan in uk" and got the following:

It is out of stock at the first several links on that list of results.

ChemSan is not a no-rinse sanitizer, and it just seems to be nastier in general than StarSan.

They seem to advertise it as such:

• No Rinse when used at the prescribed dilution rate

• A blend of phosphoric acid, benzenesulfonic acid and isopropanol

 

[Rish]

@robint , I used bleach and vinegar as no rinse for a number of batches when I first started brewing. Never any problems with taste, odor or contamination. Good luck!

https://www.thehomebrewforum.co.uk/threads/bleach-no-rinse-sanitiser.66838/

These guys spell it wrong, too!

 

[johnsonpvb17]

I'm a newbie to the hobby, on 1 gal batch #15 and 5 gal batch #6. Have used maybe $15 of Star Sans so far, soaking and spraying.

No weird funky messes yet, and am happy with the progression my brews.

The vinegar thing sounds like a craft brewer flavor to me, like pickles (thinking some high end Balsamic maybe?). Can't believe everything on the internet for sure. The folks on this site have been right on in the advice category. Thanks to all.

 

[doug293cz]

It is out of stock at the first several links on that list of results.


They seem to advertise it as such:

• No Rinse when used at the prescribed dilution rate
• A blend of phosphoric acid, benzenesulfonic acid and isopropanol

There appear to be at least two different ChemSan products. The one you linked is basically the same as StarSan (phosphoric acid and some form of benzenesulfonic acid), and the one @OakIslandBrewery linked here which has the following ingredient list:

And these use directions, which stipulate a rinse after use "Flush with potable water prior to reuse":

Buyer beware.

Brew on

 

[OakIslandBrewery]

Best to stick with Star San if you can find it or just use white vinegar.

The OP was right, can't trust internet searches. Spend a bunch of time trying to find answers then end up with more questions.

 

[robint]

View attachment 862666

Active ingredients are listed here for a comparison. Again, a search of the internet, seemed easy to find.

You see what I mean guys - hoisted on your own petard.
Your Chemsan (made in Trinidad btw) does not contains any phosphoric acid like Starsan SO ITS NOT THE SAME BUDDY.

here is a print of the label
@OakIslandBrewery

Chemsan Chemclean ltd Trinidad and Tobago
alkyl(C12 - C14)dimethyl benzyl ammonium chloride 3.9%, dodecyl dimethyl ammonium chloride 5.86%, ethanol<1%

The stuff we can get is made by Chemisphere UK
and contains the same as Starsan and is marketed as a replacement !!!!!!
dodecylbenzenesulfonic acid
phosphoric acid

and also some isopropanol (IPA) solvent against grease alternative to denatured ethylalcohol

Just to show what I am up against some other ingredients in your Chemsan

Alkyl(C12 - C14) dimethylbenzylammonium chloride ( ADBAC) - biocide
Dodecylbenzenesulfonic acid (DDBSA) - synthetic laundry detergent
Dodecyldimethylbenzylammonium chloride (DDBAC)
Didecyldimethylammonium chloride (DDAC) - similar to above but different

Its a mine field of confusion for the amateur

OBTW not promoting here but this stuff is half the price of Starsan sources quoted above SWIM

 

[bobtheUKbrewer2]

Peracetic acid popular in UK - but it does stain your fingers...

 

[OakIslandBrewery]

You see what I mean guys - hoisted on your own petard.
Your Chemsan (made in Trinidad btw) does not contains any phosphoric acid like Starsan SO ITS NOT THE SAME BUDDY.

here is a print of the label
@OakIslandBrewery

Chemsan Chemclean ltd Trinidad and Tobago
alkyl(C12 - C14)dimethyl benzyl ammonium chloride 3.9%, dodecyl dimethyl ammonium chloride 5.86%, ethanol<1%

The stuff we can get is made by Chemisphere UK
and contains the same as Starsan and is marketed as a replacement !!!!!!
dodecylbenzenesulfonic acid
phosphoric acid

and also some isopropanol (IPA) solvent against grease alternative to denatured ethylalcohol

View attachment 862705

Just to show what I am up against some other ingredients in your Chemsan

Alkyl(C12 - C14) dimethylbenzylammonium chloride ( ADBAC) - biocide
Dodecylbenzenesulfonic acid (DDBSA) - synthetic laundry detergent
Dodecyldimethylbenzylammonium chloride (DDBAC)
Didecyldimethylammonium chloride (DDAC) - similar to above but different

Its a mine field of confusion for the amateur

OBTW not promoting here but this stuff is half the price of Starsan sources quoted above SWIM

OK, my search was wrong, I can admit that I made a mistake.

Obviously with a search you were able to find a sanitizer available to you, at half of the cost of Star San and made in the UK. You're a winner BUDDY!

 

[MaxStout]

Those ingredients look to me like a type of quaternary ammonium. Quats are used as disinfectants in the food industry for non-porous surfaces like countertops, prep tables, etc. For brewing gear it needs to be rinsed.

Disinfecting is overkill for most brewing applications. Stick with a no-rinse sanitizer, i.e., phosphoric acid-based. Iodophor also works as a no-rinse if diluted to the 12-25 ppm range.

 

[mac_1103]

Stick with a no-rinse sanitizer, i.e., phosphoric acid-based. Iodophor also works as a no-rinse if diluted to the 12-25 ppm range.

Even chlorine bleach can be a no-rinse sanitizer if diluted enough. And also a disinfectant at higher concentrations. People have been brewing for a lot longer than Star San has been around.

 

[robint]

The 4th Edition was published in 2017 and still regarded as one of the go-to books on home brewing.

Thanx for the heads up, I have been reading up on this (half way through) and its much better than I expected 2017) So much of this modern pulp is up itself pushing product and semi pro gear etc and commercially biased and so on. You can spot these quickly cos they have way too many glossy pics

 

[robint]

Peracetic acid popular in UK - but it does stain your fingers...

joe public cant buy this, but its available with wet wipes - babies bottoms?

 

[OakIslandBrewery]

Thanx for the heads up, I have been reading up on this (half way through) and its much better than I expected 2017) So much of this modern pulp is up itself pushing product and semi pro gear etc and commercially biased and so on. You can spot these quickly cos they have way too many glossy pics

Sometimes those pictures are nice to see what the commercial world uses and how it could be used in our home breweries, just on a smaller scale. Inspiration from the pros have lead to the development of most of the equipment we are using today at home, much the same as sanitizers.

Edit: There's many great books out there for home brewers to learn but also look at YouTube. There's always going to be the ones that brag and are full of themselves, but they're easy to spot. Ignore them and learn what you can.

 

[robint]

Got my 100ml handy pack of chemsan and made up 4L of spray water kept in Soda pet bottles. Looks neat solution and for a £5 whats not to like Cheers guys. That pack will last me couple years I expect.

 

[fluketamer]

good good.

its the best.

you can spra it on surfaces to minimize use. and also you can soak a paper towel and use it as wipes or a sponge.
the foam is as good or better at sanitizing than spray or soak.
you can drink or eat the foam its tasteless and although i am paranoid about getting it out of the keg, others dont fear it at all.
it keeps a while and you can reuse it several times .

so for expample you could use it to sanitize your fermenter then instead of discarding it use the same batch to sanitize bottles or kegs etc.


i often use it about 4-5 times before dumpiong it.

 

[OakIslandBrewery]

Got my 100ml handy pack of chemsan and made up 4L of spray water kept in Soda pet bottles. Looks neat solution and for a £5 whats not to like Cheers guys. That pack will last me couple years I expect.

Good deal, Congratulations!

 

[HM-2]

we dont get Starsan in Uk.

We have Chemsan as the most widely used no rinse sanitiser.

They're essentially identical formulations; contrary to the posts above Chemsan is perfectly fine to use without rinsing when diluted at the specified ratios. IIRC th only difference is the presence of isopropanol in Chemsan.



You can get Star San but it's often out of stock in places that have listings for it. Something to do with historic restrictions on imports to the EU IIRC.