Sam Calagione on "Beer Geeks"

[Homercidal]

This thread has gotten me seriously thirsty for a beer!

But I don't want any of that DFH garbage. I only want to drink the RAREST and MOST EXCLUSIVE beer.

I won't tell you what it is, though or it wont' taste as good. (sniff)

 

[unionrdr]

Yeah,$1,000 a glass,served in Austrian crystal crusted with diamonds & pure gold scroll work. Served by a nude model that lap dances while I drink it,or it's absolute crap.

 

[danorocks17]

I'm glad he called people out. I think MOST home brewers have a better appreciation for beers because they know how much effort it takes to make a great beer. I was always looking for a new and exciting beer, but when I started home brewing, I gained a better appreciation for beer in general. I feel that I can now say "this is a good, quality beer, but I personally don't care for it."

 

[Zak]

I haven't really paid attention to what people say about a beer online after an interview I read with a bar tender from one of the local beer bars

...You also get people who'll pay for sample glasses -- they'll get eight little samples with a different beer in each one, then get online and rate each one, presenting it as if they've had that beer. Yeah, you've tasted an ounce of it, but it's not the same as drinking that beer...

can't trust people who are judging beer just by sampling. (full interview if anyone is interested)

As far as DFH, I've never had a beer from there that I've really "liked" but that doesn't mean I don't have great respect for Sam and the rest of the company for what they've done and how they do it.

 

[GilaMinumBeer]

Yeah,$1,000 a glass,served in Austrian crystal crusted with diamonds & pure gold scroll work. Served by a nude model that lap dances while I drink it,or it's absolute crap.

Yeah, those stripper club drinks for the girls are expensive.

 

[rexbanner]

I don't think he should have responded. BA is full of bad attitudes, pretty much everyone knows it. Also, people are allowed not to like the direction a brewery takes. I for one don't really care for any special beers DFH makes, and I think that making beers just to be different only works if they also taste good. That's just my opinion and the market is free to disagree with me, though. Obviously they have been very successful doing what they do, and their flagship beers are good, so Sam Calagione shouldn't care what me or 1000 more bitter people think. He's doing what he wants to do and generating success.

 

[weirdboy]

...You also get people who'll pay for sample glasses -- they'll get eight little samples with a different beer in each one, then get online and rate each one, presenting it as if they've had that beer. Yeah, you've tasted an ounce of it, but it's not the same as drinking that beer...

I am not sure I agree with his statement, even though I understand his sentiment. I mean, BJCP judges judge beer based on a 2-4 ounce pour. Does that mean all the comments (and scores) they write on scoresheets are useless or inaccurate?

 

[GilaMinumBeer]

I am not sure I agree with his statement, even though I understand his sentiment. I mean, BJCP judges judge beer based on a 2-4 ounce pour. Does that mean all the comments (and scores) they write on scoresheets are useless or inaccurate?

Yes!

 

[JJL]

BA is full of bad attitudes, pretty much everyone knows it.

This is exactly why I don't spend any time on BA anymore. I used to get on there when I travelled to get an idea of the breweries and pubs in an area, but now I don't bother. Just too much complaining by wannabe brewers and critics.

Although I did find the comments kind of funny. The OP starts out with "DFH is over rated." Then everyone jumps in and says "Yeah DFH is over rated, and so are these other breweries." Then Sam calls them out and all of the posts after that are "Way to go Sam." "You're the best." "I've always been a fan."

 

[Lennie]

I am not sure I agree with his statement, even though I understand his sentiment. I mean, BJCP judges judge beer based on a 2-4 ounce pour. Does that mean all the comments (and scores) they write on scoresheets are useless or inaccurate?

The ones I write are, but I'm only in it for the 2-4oz free pours. Last contest I got 40 of them.

And its "palate" people, not pallette, not pallet.

 

[RosewaterFoundation]

I'm glad he called people out. I think MOST home brewers have a better appreciation for beers because they know how much effort it takes to make a great beer. I was always looking for a new and exciting beer, but when I started home brewing, I gained a better appreciation for beer in general. I feel that I can now say "this is a good, quality beer, but I personally don't care for it."

This.

 

[Steelers77]

I've met sam on a tour of DFH as well just last month in early December.
He was on the move but took the time to answer a few questions and to chat about the shirt I had on "Maui Brewing Company"
For a guy that supposedly "sold out" according to BA people, he sure cares what an average or above average beer guy thinks.
If he had truly sold out, he would not care what beer people thought of his beer, only that $$ and profits keep rising.
Ask an InBev VP secretly if they "care" if people like their beer.
Answer? Hell NO, they just want people to BUY it.

I agree, I spent about an hour drinking with Sam at the Hops and Props a few years back. I just happened to have on one of my DFH shirts and he came up to us and said "nice to see you have your colors on". Then he left came back with a bottle of Fort, a couple 120's, and WWS. He sat there and B.S. with us as they were shutting the place down. Nice guy.

 

[SittingDuck]

Yeah,$1,000 a glass,served in Austrian crystal crusted with diamonds & pure gold scroll work. Served by a nude model that lap dances while I drink it,or it's absolute crap.

Not gonna lie, I want to drink that now.

 

[weirdboy]

Not gonna lie, I want to drink that now.

So long as it's not DFH, amirite?

 

[Lennie]

So long as it's not DFH, amirite?

Depends on the dancer.

 

[Zak]

I am not sure I agree with his statement, even though I understand his sentiment. I mean, BJCP judges judge beer based on a 2-4 ounce pour. Does that mean all the comments (and scores) they write on scoresheets are useless or inaccurate?

True, but how many BJCP judges are going around and getting samples at bars to go and post about online? If it was a BJCP Advocate message board then it would be a different story.

 

[Spintab]

I can truthfully say that I only really enjoy maybe 1 out of every 5 new DFH beers that I try but...I try them all. I'm sure most of us know about Sam's history and how DFH came into being but if you don't, look into it. Sam started by brewing his a$$ off, every day, on a tiny system. He personally made efforts to change Delaware legislation in order for his business to be viable. He has stuck to his guns from day one and worked harder than most to make his dream a reality, and it has truly paid off for him and his family. I drink his beer for these reasons and because I know every once in a while I'm going to love one of his crazy concoctions. Yes, some drink DFH because of it's prestige, or to score beer snob points, but I can only hope that in a forum like this people can appreciate it for what has and still does go into the beer besides the ingredients.

 

[Jknapp]

I agree with his argument, but I also think DFH is the most overrated beer I've ever had so I guess I'm clueless.

This +100. I love me the guy and his passion. But his beer I generally don't.

 

[MalFet]

This +100. I love me the guy and his passion. But his beer I generally don't.

The fact that you can make that distinction, though, is kind of the point. Some of the snarlier posts that get made on BA would have you think Sam was selling chemical weapons to puppy killers, not a beer the posters happen to dislike.

 

[SittingDuck]

More importantly, you can say, I don't like his beer. You aren't saying I am not allowed to like his beer, it that his beer is objectively piss and anyone who drinks it is too stupid to know better.

 

[Bmorebrew]

I find Sam's comments well-crafted and his words carefully chosen. I know plenty of craft beer drinkers and we all have our preferences, our likes, our dislikes. Even the DFH offerings that I don't particularly care for I find to be of high quality. His beers that I can't get into from a 'drinking' perspective I am still able to appreciate from a standpoint that they are made properly.

One of my pet peeves about BA is that it seems like it's full of *****ebags . . . hipsters who love to suck on the tailpipes of the cool RISs and DIPAs only because the rest of the other hipsters do. I wouldn't be surprised if many people who grade beers over there have never even had them.

That in mind, I suspect Sam had his audience in mind when pecking out his rant yesterday. Such comments would probably not have been made to a group of commercial craft brewers. Nor to homebrewers for that matter. Only to people who most likely wouldn't be able to pass the Pepsi challenge of craft beer.

 

[Lennie]

Whats beautiful is that Sam C. can make one post on an internet forum and elicit 10 pages of responses on the first day on another beer forum. I can't think of anyone else in the craft beer business who could do that. Guess the book and TV show have cemented his celebrity.

 

[Rev2010]

Whats beautiful is that Sam C. can make one post on an internet forum and elicit 10 pages of responses on the first day on another beer forum.

Heh, yeah Christ I ask some questions here and with all the experienced people on here I often get one response over days and have to bump the thread. Couldn't believe this is an 11 page thread in one day.

Anyhow, I admit I'm guilty of clicking and reading. I read Sam's post and all I have to say is this....

In all my years as a musician the most important thing I feel I've learned is you simply cannot please everyone and there will always... ALWAYS be negative opinions on you and what you do not matter what.

I personally don't visit BeerAdvocate, I've seen it but never found any viable reason to use it or interact with it. Snobbery comes on all levels among all things. No matter the hobby or field - automotive, cigars, music, wine, cheese, legal, etc there is always snobbery. I for one find it rather amusing how people love something then instantly turn on it.

All you need to do to see this attitude in action is read the negative reviews of bands 2nd or 3rd albums. The hilarious dichotomy is that if you make an album similar in sound to the first you will have those hating it because it sounds like a repeat. However, if the album sounds different then you have the negative reviewers saying it's nothing like the original and the band has changed for the worse.


Rev.

 

[davidr7283]

Whats beautiful is that Sam C. can make one post on an internet forum and elicit 10 pages of responses on the first day on another beer forum. I can't think of anyone else in the craft beer business who could do that. Guess the book and TV show have cemented his celebrity.

Well said! I hadn't heard of DFH until the TV show, now i have also read his book and thoroughly enjoyed it.

I will continue to drink the beers I like and not drink the ones I don't. But I will support every brewer out there with the exception of BMC.

 

[wailingguitar]

I have tried to link to his rant through here and probrewer.com several times today and it never connects... what gives?

 

[SittingDuck]

Link still opens fine for me.

 

[Rev2010]

I have tried to link to his rant through here and probrewer.com several times today and it never connects... what gives?

Why do you refer to it as a rant? Just curious as all too often it seems that whenever someone with some basis to make a well informed response suddenly it gets considered as a rant.


Rev.

 

[teal]

I have great respect for Sam the business man. Alternatively when his beer was available here, I just couldn't find one I liked. FWIW

I agree with him, you can like or dislike a beer and so long as you back up why - feel free to share that opinion. It has worth. What doesn't have worth is cracking on a place just for being successful or from a position of group think and mob mentality. Which you tend to see on BA quite a bit.

I've seen this particular thread discussed in about 7 places since it posted. What's happened is some people then swing to the other extreme. Saying things like if it wasn't for Sam and the work DFH has done there wouldn't be any good beer in America, we'd all be BMC drones.

Well intentioned but just as ignorant as the people writing the criticisms that got Sam to post to begin with. It's disrespectful to guys like Fritz Maytag, Ken Grossman, Jack McAuliffe, and cities like Denver and Portland or even the home brewing community at large. Sam didn't invent craft beer or home brewing, he wasn't the first guy to try and sell it either.

Just a little perspective for both sides is all.

Drink what you like - share what you like - brew what you like. Screw the rest.

 

[user 30639]

When I saw your link, all I could think was, "Uh oh...". It's rarely a good idea for a producer to respond directly to criticism, since it almost always looks petty and hostile. But, I think Sam was spot on here. It's all well and good to dislike certain beers, but the level of self-righteousness in that thread was incredibly tedious.

Self-righteousness on BA? Surely you jest

 

[wailingguitar]

Why do you refer to it as a rant? Just curious as all too often it seems that whenever someone with some basis to make a well informed response suddenly it gets considered as a rant.


Rev.

I used the word "rant" since that was the word used in the title of the thread! If you read my post, obviously I haven't even been able to read it yet! WTH?

 

[BrewMU]

I've never had DFH, but people have a right to their opinion. You throw your product on the shelves, people pay for it; they just supposed to keep their mouth shut?
Obviously people have different taste, but I'll agree with a thread I saw running through that thread - some craft beers are overpriced, especially that sold by the single bottle, bomber or otherwise. Like Rogue - I got a six of they're Yellow Snow IPA for $10.99. At first I didn't like it, but by the last one I had a grudging respect. Not in the same class as Firestone-Walker, IMO, but okay.
Now skip to the bombers: Yellow Snow goes for $6.99. For another 50 cents I can get a bomber of Double Jack, which I like a lot better. Not worth it to me, and I'm not even remotely interested in betting 7 bucks on any of their other beers, which aren't available here by the six. But that's me - apparently enough people disagree to support the price. What's wrong with people trading opinions on this stuff? Should I worry that the CEO of Rogue is going to come on here and blast me? It's all just my opinion, and his.

 

[teal]

I do wonder if people are calling a brewery "over rated" because they did pay a premium for the brew and didn't like it. Willing to bet that if they were paying 4.00 a sixer, it wouldn't bother them as much.

Not saying that all beers cost too much - as a home brewer I know how expensive it is to create good beer with a small economy of scale. I agree with the brewer charging what they need to so they can make a buck - I just wonder if as craft brew grows and more people are trying it, they've got unreasonable expectations and a palate that isn't up to speed just yet.

LOTS of people have used Blue Moon or Shocktop as their gateway to craft beer and now that they're paying a premium for real craft - they feel slighted or don't like what they're tasting and are taking it out on the wrong people.

Hopping from Blue Moon to a DIPA or Imperial Stout isn't the best idea. People don't know what they don't know....

 

[ClarnoBrewer]

The "rant" wasn't Sam knocking drinkers for not liking his beer. It's worth reading it. He's basically annoyed that folks are writing off all sorts of craft beers as crap, possibly as a means to praise other beers. He's basically reiterating 'to each his own' And 'can't we all just get along.'

Overpriced is another funny notion. What you'll pay for a beer is as individual a choice as whether you find a beer delicious or not. If I want something really special, I don't bat an eye at a $6 bomber. If I want a lot of beer for drinking by the river, $15 a cube is also an option. To each his own!

I've never had DFH, but people have a right to their opinion. You throw your product on the shelves, people pay for it; they just supposed to keep their mouth shut?
Obviously people have different taste, but I'll agree with a thread I saw running through that thread - some craft beers are overpriced, especially that sold by the single bottle, bomber or otherwise. Like Rogue - I got a six of they're Yellow Snow IPA for $10.99. At first I didn't like it, but by the last one I had a grudging respect. Not in the same class as Firestone-Walker, IMO, but okay.
Now skip to the bombers: Yellow Snow goes for $6.99. For another 50 cents I can get a bomber of Double Jack, which I like a lot better. Not worth it to me, and I'm not even remotely interested in betting 7 bucks on any of their other beers, which aren't available here by the six. But that's me - apparently enough people disagree to support the price. What's wrong with people trading opinions on this stuff? Should I worry that the CEO of Rogue is going to come on here and blast me? It's all just my opinion, and his.

 

[ClarnoBrewer]

+1 It can be a pricey gamble, but if you decide you like it, it's worth it. If you don't like it, you got ripped off!

I do wonder if people are calling a brewery "over rated" because they did pay a premium for the brew and didn't like it. Willing to bet that if they were paying 4.00 a sixer, it wouldn't bother them as much.

Not saying that all beers cost too much - as a home brewer I know how expensive it is to create good beer with a small economy of scale. I agree with the brewer charging what they need to so they can make a buck - I just wonder if as craft brew grows and more people are trying it, they've got unreasonable expectations and a palate that isn't up to speed just yet.

LOTS of people have used Blue Moon or Shocktop as their gateway to craft beer and now that they're paying a premium for real craft - they feel slighted or don't like what they're tasting and are taking it out on the wrong people.

Hopping from Blue Moon to a DIPA or Imperial Stout isn't the best idea. People don't know what they don't know....

 

[bovineblitz]

+1 It can be a pricey gamble, but if you decide you like it, it's worth it. If you don't like it, you got ripped off!

Personally I consider buying any IPA in a store to be a pricey gamble, lol.

 

[cadarnell]

Why do you refer to it as a rant? Just curious as all too often it seems that whenever someone with some basis to make a well informed response suddenly it gets considered as a rant.


Rev.

I think even he would say he was ranting. I am Not too sure of websters definition of the word but it seemed to fit what I read .... Another guy more specifically called it a diatribe ... Either way, you could tell he was pissed.

 

[Danbreeze]

Kudos to Sam for reminding people that taste is subjective, and that bickering gets you nowhere.

As a Delaware native, I have been drinking Dogfish Head since '98, long before Brewmasters, when they were just an up and comer. Ahhh, the good old days, when everyone hated on Jim Koch from Boston Brewing Co. instead :cross:

 

[Rev2010]

I used the word "rant" since that was the word used in the title of the thread! If you read my post, obviously I haven't even been able to read it yet! WTH?

You said you had a hard time linking to it, I figured you meant reposting the link elsewhere. No insult meant, I was just asking why you called it a rant.

@Cadarnell, from dictionary.com:

Rant
[rant]   Origin
rant
   /rænt/ Show Spelled[rant] Show IPA
verb (used without object)
1.
to speak or declaim extravagantly or violently; talk in a wild or vehement way; rave: The demagogue ranted for hours.

That doesn't seem to fit his post. I'm no English major and I'm most likely only citing this as a result of my annoyance to the frequent misuse of the term anytime someone that has a professional basis in a field speaks up about something.


Rev.

 

[Spintab]

Ahhh, the good old days, when everyone hated on Jim Koch from Boston Brewing Co. instead

Must have been around the time Sammy Light was released.

 

[Brewkowski]

I stopped by a local liquor store to pick up some beers and such after work and I noticed a 4 pack of DFH 120, and it was stickered at $29.00. I laughed and quickly grabbed a bomber of Stone Smoked Porter and and some ciders. At check out I told the guy he should go back and check the price, and he's like, "no man, that's the right price it's normally $12 per 12oz bottle, but it wasn't selling so we packed it into a 4 pack"
I'm sure I've had it before and I'm sure that is not the price, am I wrong? So I have to wonder about the hype that the distributor is putting into selling it to this somewhat ghetto liquor store in the suburbs.

Overall, it's a great brewery in my opinion, but no I don't care for all of their beers, but I always look forward to trying them because they're different, even compared to many craft brews.