Sake / saki Angel Rice Leaven experiment

[DarrenUK]

I started this on a different forum but I think it would be appropriated here.
The experiment isn't finished I have about 1 week left and currently 3 weeks in. The experiment was to make Saki (Sake) using Angel Rice Leaven (ARL). Now from my understanding ARL has Koji the mold in it or at least the active enzyme that converts starch to sugar from the Koji. But....... Every video I watched or post I read was completely different and I wasn't any clearer if ARL had a wild yeast in the packet or you where ment to let wild yeast from the rice ferment the saki.

So I did a test. 2 containers, 1 with yeast added and 1 without but both with ARL.

These are the pictures so far.

Day1 ground 0 test started.
Nothing exciting to show here other than my choice of lunch box.

1 week in you can see that a large amount Of liquid is coming from both containers but the one with the yeast is clearly breaking down the rice. There was pockets of Co2 forming but the mixture was heavy and still grainy.

Week 2. Not muched changed for one but the rice with the yeast was very active Co2 pockets all over and was like a rice pudding at this point. Also the smell was definitely sweet and alcohol was definitely there. Nothing was happening in the other sample and it smelt like playdoe, starchy.

To date.
Very watery, Very alcoholic and very sweet... Atleast to the nose. Still very active and tempted to strain it off now but I will wait another week.
The other sample is showing bubbles but nothing I would call activity.
So at 3 weeks I would say you need to add yeast and there doesn't appear to be wild yeast in the ARL.

So that's where I'm at. I will taste test and all that jazz next week before doing an actual batch of saki. I will continue to post it on here too for you guys

 

[oakbarn]

Looking forward to the completion of the experiment.

 

[DarrenUK]

Ohh also. I used a mix of basmati and jasmine rice at 50/50 for this. Didn't want to spend a fortune on saki grade or short grain table rice just to test it out.

 

[oakbarn]

When I was in Japan, I had Amazake. It was like a broth served warm before fermentation. Extremely sweet.

 

[DarrenUK]

(Amazake (甘酒, [amazake]) is a traditional sweet, low-alcohol Japanese drink made from fermented rice. Amazake dates from the Kofun period,) .... Pulled from the Web.
That's interesting. I wonder what makes an Amazake. I know there's 4 styles of Sake. What makes that 1 different.... No idea. Anything Japanese is fascinating. Just the care they put into things is awsome

 

[oakbarn]

There is that and a no alcohol (or very low) one. There is an old inn in Hakone that serves it.

 

[wongjau]

The yeast levels in the ARL won’t increase unless you aerate and maintain correct temperature. Also, sub-optimal or wrong rice makes it difficult for saccharification to feed and grow your yeast.

There’s a 300+ page research document published by Jiangnan national university in english which is super useful.

“Grandiose Survey of Chinese Alcoholic Drinks and Beverages”

Also “Handbook of Food Science, Technology, and Engineering - Volume 4, Chapter 173 Chinese Wines - Jiu” has 52 pages out of 3000+ that covers everything you need to know about jiu.

 

[DarrenUK]

The yeast levels in the ARL won’t increase unless you aerate and maintain correct temperature. Also, sub-optimal or wrong rice makes it difficult for saccharification to feed and grow your yeast.

There’s a 300+ page research document published by Jiangnan national university in english which is super useful.

“Grandiose Survey of Chinese Alcoholic Drinks and Beverages”

Also “Handbook of Food Science, Technology, and Engineering - Volume 4, Chapter 173 Chinese Wines - Jiu” has 52 pages out of 3000+ that covers everything you need to know about jiu.

That's useful thanks. I will look into that and see if I can find a pdf of that chapter.
Will do another test with yamada nishiki rice at some point but I don't want to screw it up as its expensive for rice.

 

[wongjau]

ARL has yeast, but they are not wild.

Angel Yeast is a high tech company, and their strains are lab cultured.

https://en.angelyeast.com/about-us.html
Parts of their website are broken, but you can find archived page links about yeast in ARL.

 

[wongjau]

That's useful thanks. I will look into that and see if I can find a pdf of that chapter.
Will do another test with yamada nishiki rice at some point but I don't want to screw it up as its expensive for rice.

Just use regular glutinous rice that you get at big supermarkets or at the asian markets. That’s what the process was developed on since ancient times.

This is what I use, but I just get it at the Chinese market. Better price locally.

https://www.amazon.com/Koda-Farms-Sho-Chiku-Bai-Sweet-Pound/dp/B003T2TKZM
This is short grain. Medium grain rice Japanese rice can work, but it’s not ideal. Long grain and brown rice would be just making things difficult for yourself.

 

[DarrenUK]

This is the one I have. I have been keeping it relatively cold but maybe I should put the sample without added yeast somewhere warmer.

 

[wongjau]

View attachment 737430
This is the one I have. I have been keeping it relatively cold but maybe I should put the sample without added yeast somewhere warmer.

Here’s some archived useful info.

https://web.archive.org/web/2016091...cts/FoodIngredients/Chinesealcohol/20358.html
Also, stir your mash and cover with something like cheesecloth. You need to aerate to get the yeast pass the lag phase. This is like building a starter when brewing beer.

In fact, what you are doing now would be used as a starter culture for making Shaoxing wine.

 

[DarrenUK]

Yeah it's definitely to cold then. I will move it to a warmer room. We'll if there is definitely yeast in there then the bubbles are probably it trying to start. Will see. I will give it another week. Its interesting that they recommend adding water. I was under the impression you don't. I didn't with these 2. It's all the liquid being pulled from the rice.

 

[wongjau]

Water affects the attenuation.

Adding water makes for more alcohol conversion, a dryer finish, and at the same time gives a lower final alcohol level due to dilution.

Regular huang jiu has more water added early, and finishes around 10% alcohol.

Shaoxing has less water, more residual sugar, and final alcohol around 18%.

So depends on what kind of wine you want.

 

[DarrenUK]

Junmai would seem the easiest.

 

[DarrenUK]

Update. I left the lunchboxes at the temperature they've been. Not that I don't believe any of the advise but that I started the experiment on a video I watched and I figured I would atleast finish it since there wasn't long left.

I have been paying more attention to it the last few days and it has started fermentation, or at the very least it's showing to a noticeable effect.

Obviously since I have started I will finish but now I want to see how long it will take with this method at these colder temperatures.

I will keep updating this since I'm sure it will be helpful to someone somewhere.

 

[DarrenUK]

Sake experiment click here.
I started this experiment on the sister forum of this one... Before I found this one (this one is far better) Just to save me time I linked it the other forum so I don't have to repeat myself.

 

[wongjau]

Sounds as expected. Congrats!

Now you have to do a big batch without stalling the initial fermentation.

 

[DarrenUK]

Sounds as expected. Congrats!

Now you have to do a big batch without stalling the initial fermentation.

Yeah that's the idea. My problem was all the videos and advice is so mixed it's hard to know where your going. I would like to think I have a reasonable idea what I'm doing now. But ai definitely started to cold.
Its not all that different from making anything else but I guess I got lost in the mystery of it all.

 

[wongjau]

It’s confusing too because people get the fermented rice dessert confused with rice wine. The video title will get translated as rice wine, but they are only doing the early saccharification and just a little of the alcohol conversion.

I suspect that might have been the case with video you saw that said to refrigerate. They do that so it doesn’t get too boozy. I ran across some like that.

Best videos are the Chinese documentaries on the old brewing methods.

 

[DarrenUK]

It’s confusing too because people get the fermented rice dessert confused with rice wine. The video title will get translated as rice wine, but they are only doing the early saccharification and just a little of the alcohol conversion.

I suspect that might have been the case with video you saw that said to refrigerate. They do that so it doesn’t get too boozy. I ran across some like that.

Best videos are the Chinese documentaries on the old brewing methods.

Seen them all at this point. Got to the old videos more recently. I wish I. Got to them sooner because knowing koji isn't actually mold it's just a name for the rice with Aspergillus Oryzae it might have saved me a headache