Saison with Manderina Bavaria - help with recipe

[TurnipGreen]

I'm looking at brewing a saison. Shooting for a lighter, malt forward, peppery beer. Six gallon batch, for malts I'm planning about:
10# Belgian pils
1.5 # Rye malt
1# wheat malt
1/2# Munich light

Then I'd like to use a little manderina Bavaria hops to get a subtle orange-ness. I've only used manderina once and really didn't get a lot/any orange out of it. That was an American style wheat ale with a kolsch yeast, it was good but I did orange peel and coriander tincture to get orange. I've had some commercial beers that pull it off nicely, with I think just manderina. If anyone has tips on getting the most orange out of manderina, I'd appreciate the pointers.

I plan on using Bella saison for yeast, cause that has gotten me the pepper I'm shooting for.

Feel free to poke holes in the grain bill, too. I'm still trying to figure out what I like and what I don't in saisons.

Thanks!

 

[Abrayton]

I just did a recipe that was very similar except I used 3522 Belgian Ardennes. I used an oz of mandarina bavaria with 5 min left in the boil and 1oz at flame out. I got zero flavor from the mandarina bavaria and something is just off. I think it might be that the rye is out of place, maybe with that particular yeast. My suggestion would be to use way more mandarina than I did and probably dry hop with it.

 

[Jayjay1976]

3522 is a beautiful strain with mandarina. You need to use 1 oz at flameout, 2 oz whirlpool at 150 for 20 minutes, then dry hop with 2 oz at high kraeusen then another 2 oz 3 days before bottling. I like mandarina together with huell melon but mandarina works well on its own, just have to use a bunch to get the orange notes. My last batch smelled like a glass of sunny d on bottling day; if you keg you get the added opportunity to keg hop, too. This particular hop is at the top of my list, wonderful flavor and still retains noble hop character.

Edit: just want to add, late additions over 160f will volitilize nearly all of the desirable fruity aromatics, cool it down a bit more and don't be shy with the amounts. Buy mandrina by the pound and give it a whirl.

 

[TurnipGreen]

Thanks jayjay. You’re absolutely right, no better way to learn a hops that to have a pound of it in the freezer to play with.

I’m gonna do that. Thanks too for the whirlpool and dry hopping ideas. That sounds obvious enough I feel like I should have known that but dry hopping a saison never even entered my mind.

 

[fuhmon]

Just kegged 12g batch hazy with kviek yeast . 1 oz El Dorado 30m , 2oz Mandarina At 0m , 4oz whp mandarina At 155F for 20m, 5oz dry hop on day 3 of fermentation. I get lots of lemon and slight pepper in the nose. Flavor is lemon and candied orange peel.

 

[mirthfuldragon]

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/forum/...ack-series-tank-7-farmhouse-ale-clone.250256/ Weighs in at 8%, so that may be why I like it so much. I used that grain bill a couple of times and it works really well for a saison.

I think you may have a little too much going on here - the saison yeast phenols, the Mandarina Bavaria hops, and then the rye malt. I would eliminate one and attempt to bump the others. Personally, I would save the hops for a pale ale or IPA, where they can shine, and bump the rye and ferment it on the warm side to maximize the rye saison character.

 

[Gnomebrewer]

If you want subtle orange notes, how about using the zest of an orange or two?

 

[sicktght311]

Mandarina is a great hope for that smooth juicy orange flavor, but I’ve found when I use it in my neipas, it needs double what you’d use of something else like Galaxy or Amarillo. And if you’re looking for the aroma, stick to exclusively dryhop with it. As stated above, in a whirlpool it gets eaten up pretty quickly

 

[TurnipGreen]

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/forum/...ack-series-tank-7-farmhouse-ale-clone.250256/ Weighs in at 8%, so that may be why I like it so much. I used that grain bill a couple of times and it works really well for a saison.

I think you may have a little too much going on here - the saison yeast phenols, the Mandarina Bavaria hops, and then the rye malt. I would eliminate one and attempt to bump the others. Personally, I would save the hops for a pale ale or IPA, where they can shine, and bump the rye and ferment it on the warm side to maximize the rye saison character.

Simpler is always better. I do want to get a little rye bite in there, but it’ll be way easier to figure out the hops with this yeast if there’s one less thing happening with the malts. So starting simple sounds like a plan.

If you want subtle orange notes, how about using the zest of an orange or two?

I could and I’ve done that before, but i’d like to figure out how to get the orange notes out of manderina. Really i’m not wanting much, just a touch of orange.