Saison Recipe Critique

[alby44]

Hey all,

Was looking for any final critiques before my brew day of a Saison this weekend. Specifically, although other feedback is certainly welcome, the hops choice (Nelson Sauvin) and the usage of Paradise Seeds. I've done other saisons before per the profile requirements (light hops/lack of spice) and was looking for something different here. IBUs clock in @ 30, but I've not used NS before. Any thoughts/feedback is most appreciated!


9 lbs Pilsner (2 Row) Bel (2.0 SRM) Grain 1 69.2 %
2 lbs Munich Malt (9.0 SRM) Grain 2 15.4 %
1 lbs Wheat Malt, Bel (2.0 SRM) Grain 3 7.7 %

Hops:
1.00 oz Saaz [4.00 %] - Boil 60.0 min Hop 4 14.4 IBUs
1.00 oz Nelson Sauvin [12.00 %] - Boil 10.0 min Hop 5 15.6 IBUs
1.00 oz Nelson Sauvin [12.00 %] - Boil 0.0 min Hop 6 0.0 IBUs

Other:
1.00 g Seeds of Paradise (Boil 0.0 mins) Spice 7 -
1 lbs Honey (Boil 0.0 mins) (3.0 SRM) Sugar 9 7.7 %

1.0 pkg French Saison (Wyeast Labs #3711)

Mash Steps

Mash In Add 4.00 gal of water at 158.4 F 148.0 F 75 min
Batch sparge with 2 steps (Drain mash tun , 5.06gal) of 168.0 F water

 

[ntempleton]

I just kegged a saison with late addition Nelson Sauvin. It's my first experience with that hop, but its earned a permanent place in that recipe. It blends very well the Bella Sasion yeast I used.

 

[Clarke]

love Nelson Sauvin, it works well for a saison

 

[alby44]

Thanks, given the hop description, was thinking it would complement nicely too. What did you use for bittering @ 60??

 

[Clarke]

Thanks, given the hop description, was thinking it would complement nicely too. What did you use for bittering @ 60??

If your asking me, I didn't use a 60min

I used .5oz of Nelson at 15min and .5oz of Nelson at 5min., that's all the hop addition I used for the one beer I made with Nelson.

 

[alby44]

If your asking me, I didn't use a 60min

I used .5oz of Nelson at 15min and .5oz of Nelson at 5min., that's all the hop addition I used for the one beer I made with Nelson.

Ah, ok, thanks for the insight....straightforward brew day then!

 

[Redhawk96]

I have also made a saiaon with 3711 and late Nelson hops, it was fantastic. I also dry hoped it with some Nelson as well.

3711 is my favorite yeast, it is a beast! You may want to raise the ferm temp a bit after the first few days to get it to finish low. I use a heating pad on the carboy, plugged into a wall outlet timer, and try to rasie it to 75-80 F for about a week or 10 days.

I also add the honey in my saisons directly to the fermentor rather than the boil for 2 reasons. I think you get better honey aroma, and it is supposed to help the yeast to get it started fermenting the wort from your grain first, then add the more easiely fermentable honey after 2-3 days.

 

[alby44]

I have also made a saiaon with 3711 and late Nelson hops, it was fantastic. I also dry hoped it with some Nelson as well.

3711 is my favorite yeast, it is a beast! You may want to raise the ferm temp a bit after the first few days to get it to finish low. I use a heating pad on the carboy, plugged into a wall outlet timer, and try to rasie it to 75-80 F for about a week or 10 days.

I also add the honey in my saisons directly to the fermentor rather than the boil for 2 reasons. I think you get better honey aroma, and it is supposed to help the yeast to get it started fermenting the wort from your grain first, then add the more easiely fermentable honey after 2-3 days.

You've given me a few things to think about, so a few questions if I may:

1. Does my hope profile look ok and how much did you dry hop with? Was initially thinking all Neslon schedule and had NS as a FWH but changed it out w/Saaz since the IBUs were beyond profile. Was also thinking I'd dry hop and maybe doing .5 or 1 oz, but am undecided at this point as i'd like to taste the sample beforehand.

2. Honey in Ferm? is there a risk of adding @ 2-3 days with initial fermentation still active? I've not done an addition like this before so am concerned about possibly ruining the batch. Did you just dump right in? The honey is orange blossom, so i think i may set some of that orange flavor added too.

btw....love 3711 too and have had great success so far with maintaining temps up to 76-78:rockin: haven't pushed to 80 tho....

 

[Redhawk96]

I think your hop profile looks great, I usually bitter with Magnum, high AA with no flavor contribution, I would probably only use about 0.5 oz. in this recipe. I added 2 oz. of Nelson at flameout, and 3 oz. of dry hops (10 gallon batch), and I felt like it gave a nice accent to the saison without dominating. But I think anything you use for bittering hops should be fine, definitely don't want the IBU's too high if you want to profile the 3711 and honey.

Dumping honey into the fermenter made me very nervous the first time I did it, I had the same concerns you have. I spray the outside of the honey jar with StarSan, but otherwise I just take off the airlock on the carboy, and dump in the honey. Their is never any left when I rack to the keg a few weeks later. IMO, it preserves the flavor much better than adding to the boil, where the volatize quickly. I have probably done this 6-8 times since, never with any issues.

 

[alby44]

I think your hop profile looks great, I usually bitter with Magnum, high AA with no flavor contribution, I would probably only use about 0.5 oz. in this recipe. I added 2 oz. of Nelson at flameout, and 3 oz. of dry hops (10 gallon batch), and I felt like it gave a nice accent to the saison without dominating. But I think anything you use for bittering hops should be fine, definitely don't want the IBU's too high if you want to profile the 3711 and honey.

Dumping honey into the fermenter made me very nervous the first time I did it, I had the same concerns you have. I spray the outside of the honey jar with StarSan, but otherwise I just take off the airlock on the carboy, and dump in the honey. Their is never any left when I rack to the keg a few weeks later. IMO, it preserves the flavor much better than adding to the boil, where the volatize quickly. I have probably done this 6-8 times since, never with any issues.

Excellent, thanks for the suggestion...I think I'll give it a try

 

[The10mmKid]

Alby,
I've been adding ~4oz of Acidulated Malt to my Saisons.

1) It helps lower the mash pH as Saisons are usually 'light on the cara/roasted malts'.
2) It seems to help with the 'bite' in a proper dry & highly carbonated Saison.

carry on,
'da Kid