Saison help

[Kai]

Sorry for long post. It's mostly recipe? ADHD friends: skip to questions at the bottom.

My brewing partner and I have been hammering out a Saison recipe for a little while, and we've sort of got an idea what we want now, so I'll go behind her back and bounce it off of you guys. I've got some specific questions, too, coming after the recipe.

We want to do this now because of this very exciting Wyeast VSS French Saison that we won't be able to get later. Here's the writeup:

Wyeast 3711VSS French Saison
Produces saison or farmhouse style bières that are highly aromatic with clean, citrus-ester, peppery and spicy notes with no earthiness, and low phenol. This strain enhances the use of spices and aroma hops, and is extremely attenuative, but leaves an unexpected silky and rich mouthfeel in a very dry finished beer.

Alcohol tolerance: appr 12% ABV
Flocculation: low
Apparent attenuation: 77-83%
Temperature range: 65-77F (18-25C)

Here's what we've got so far, from a synthesis of the BJCP guidelines, the Jamil Show Saison, a Dupont clone recipe, and our own tastes:

Target volume: 6 Gallons
Efficiency: 70%

OG: 1060
FG: 1011
ABV: 6.5
IBU: 27
SRM: 6.1

10lb Pilsner Malt
0.75lb Munich Malt
0.75lb Wheat Malt
0.25lb CaraMunich
1lb Honey (last 15m)
0.5lb Sucrose (last 15m)

2oz Tettnang 4.3% at 60
1oz Tettnang 4.3% at 1

Whirlfloc at 15m
1/2 tsp each Coriander and Curacao at 1m

Mash for 90m at 147

The questions:
-This is calculated with 82% attenuation. Can I really make that? I want it devastatingly dry. The yeast is rated 77%-83%; Jamil reports 86% with the less attenuative 3724 strain. I'm wondering whether the lower mash temp, the highly fermentable sucrose, and a gradual temperature increase from 68˚ pitching to an 80˚ finish will get me this dry?

-The honey. I've seen it in Saison recipes, and BJCP mentions it; I don't want any residual sweetness interfering, but I think the lightness and a bit of crisp dry honey flavour will go well.

-Pitching rates

-DMS in the boil. I'm still doing this on my stovetop, which can only support a rolling full-wort boil half covered. If I stretch my ingenuity to keep it rolling while minimising drip-back, can I clear it out in a 90m boil? Or am I going to have a cooked-corn saison?

-The spices. We cut way down from our original spice bill (which was awesome and had cardamom) to let the yeast take centre stage and see what we could get from that before we went seasoning this saison willy-nilly. We kept a touch of cardamom-curacao for hopefully a hint of citrus-tart crispness that (I think) will go well with the saison-style yeast. Should we cut the spices out entirely? Re-instate the original bill? Guide me!

Thanks to everyone who stuck through to the end of that post.

-Kai

 

[WOP31]

The lower mash temp should help you get the more fermentable wort that you are after. As far as the attenuation and temp goes i used the 3726 Farmhouse ale yeast in a saison and acheived around 90%. OG of 1.074 down to a FG of around 1.009. I fermented in my attic where the temps peaked around 94-95 deg. I think that was key in getting the desired attenuation. You should be able to get close to that with the 3724 Strain. The higher temps really brought out a bubble gum flavor that i was going for. Also I mashed at around 146deg for 90min. You can check out the recipe in my drop down.

Cheers

 

[yelloww]

I brewed a Saison few months ago.
87% Pilsener
6.5% Munich
6.5% wheat
Yeast from a Saison Dupont bottle. (1L starter)

Mash at 147F for 90min, boil 90min.

Pitch at 70F
12H at 70F
24H at 73F
7 days a 90F

OG 1.064 - FG 1.005 (Attenuation of 90%)

Like Jamil says...bone dry...

I tasted a bottle after 3 weeks ..very good ....it should be just better after more conditioning, my goal is to wait around 6-7 weeks.

Note: I put the beer in 750ml bottles with corks....hummmmmmm

 

[Kai]

Sounds delicious, yeloww. I'm starting to listen to a relevant Jamil show for every batch I brew. It seems really helpful.

 

[Ó Flannagáin]

I used the seasonal WLP566.. I wonder if it's the same strain as this one from WYeast. 566 was more attenuative than 565.

I mashed at 145-46 then I let it get up to 85F + during fermentation. It ended at 1.010, but it was a great great beer. I used minimal amount of spices, I believe .25oz coriander, .25oz blackpeppercorn and maybe a half ounce of orange? Not sure, the recipe is in my drop down under my name.

I think the spices were awesome though and went well with the yeast which had a peppery note of it's own.

As far as DMS goes, that's your call. Get a turkey fryer! Only like 50 bucks.

 

[jezter6]

Looks like a decent enough recipe. I'm not so sure about the honey, but that's a personal call. I've made mine 4 or 5 times, never any honey.

It usually tastes fairly good right out of the bottle, but becomes AMAZING at 2-3 months.