Saison extract with honey

[miteyjoe]

I am thinking about brewing an extract Saison for summer and was considering adding honey for some aroma and flavor. The basic extract recipe is as follows and I was considering adding one or two pounds of orange blossom honey.

3.15 lb. Pilsen liquid malt extract
3.15 lb. Wheat liquid malt extract
1 lb. Clear Candi Sugar
8 oz. Cara-20
8 oz. Unmalted Wheat specialty grains
1 oz. US Saaz
2 oz. U.S. Goldings hops
1/4 tsp. Grains of Paradise
1 oz. bitter orange peel
1/2 oz. whole coriander

What I am wondering is, do I need to up the hops or base grains to counter some of the sweetness from the honey? Also, do I add near the end of the boil or wait until flame-out?

Any comments / thoughts would be appreciated.

 

[Suicid]

The honey you are talking about seems completely missing from your recipe, thus is uknown how much of it you are going to use.
It is also would be good to know what the yeast you will use.

Basically, you won't get much sweetness from honey, especially if you 'll use yeast which ferment dry. Honey's aroma and side-flavor is what you can basically get.

 

[IslandLizard]

I would add the honey after primary fermentation has about completed. Keeps more of the already subtle honey aroma and flavor that way, plus prevents the yeast from going rampant on it early and create lots of fusel alcohols.

What is the purpose of the unmalted wheat? The way it is, it will only add starches to your wort (and beer) but no fermentables. Unless you mash it with some 2-row or so.

I would reduce the orange peel to 14 grams at the most. Pulverize it (coffee/spice grinder) steep for 30-60 minutes in hot water or wort, and add the last 15 minutes to the boil.

What yeast are you using?

 

[miteyjoe]

Thanks for the replies....

Suicid, I am planning to use one or two pounds of Orange Blossom

IslandLizard, the yeast is White Labs WLP568 Belgian Saison Yeast Blend

As for the unmalted wheat, I'm not sure what "part" it's playing it's part of the base recipe kit. I just copied the ingredients from what's on the box. The kit has really good reviews from others, so I'm not going to mess with it too much.

I was really looking to get opinions on when to add the honey and whether I needed to bump up the hops or adjust the grains to balance the honey.

 

[myerstyson]

I got amazing honey flavor and even some aroma from....wait for it....1.6oz at flame-out for my Kotbusser. Seriously. That little bit left an incredible honey sweetness to the ale. Wonderful.

 

[Suicid]

I got amazing honey flavor and even some aroma from....wait for it....1.6oz at flame-out for my Kotbusser. Seriously. That little bit left an incredible honey sweetness to the ale. Wonderful.

1.6 oz only? Hmmm.... What was your batch size?

PS are you sure about "incredible honey sweetness"? Honey is fully and easy fermentable and as one guy said "Yeast will find all the sugar"

 

[myerstyson]

1.6 oz only? Hmmm.... What was your batch size?

PS are you sure about "incredible honey sweetness"? Honey is fully and easy fermentable and as one guy said "Yeast will find all the sugar"

I cannot explain it, but the taste and aroma is of the honey I used.

It was a 5gal batch. Under my name over there on the left, click on recipes, and that is the recipe I'm talking about.

 

[Suicid]

Under my name over there on the left, click on recipes, and that is the recipe I'm talking about.

Bookmarked, thanks for sharing.
I'd probably give it a try later in spring.
What the honey would you suggest to use?

 

[IslandLizard]

I cannot explain it, but the taste and aroma is of the honey I used.

It was a 5gal batch. Under my name over there on the left, click on recipes, and that is the recipe I'm talking about.

I seriously doubt it's honey you're tasting at such a low addition. Maybe crystal. And regarding "honey sweetness" that's not in the cards either. The yeast will munch at least 95% of that. 5% maybe unfermentable if you used raw unfiltered honey.

 

[fuelish]

I cannot explain it, but the taste and aroma is of the honey I used.

It was a 5gal batch. Under my name over there on the left, click on recipes, and that is the recipe I'm talking about.

LOL....nonsense, 1.6 oz of honey (although the recipe says "1.3 oz honey at flame out") is going to impart no flavor on a 5 gallon batch of beer, it's all in your head or coming from elsewhere, as suggested by IslandLizard.

 

[IslandLizard]

LOL....nonsense, 1.6 oz of honey (although the recipe says "1.3 oz honey at flame out") is going to impart no flavor on a 5 gallon batch of beer, it's all in your head or coming from elsewhere, as suggested by IslandLizard.

Under-attenuated beer has a sweet flavor. Those from extracts are notorious to stall around 1.020.

I've added a pound of honey to a 5 gal secondary and I was the only one who could taste it when all was done. I'm sure it was by suggestion.

 

[myerstyson]

LOL....nonsense, 1.6 oz of honey (although the recipe says "1.3 oz honey at flame out") is going to impart no flavor on a 5 gallon batch of beer, it's all in your head or coming from elsewhere, as suggested by IslandLizard.

It may be in my head. (And yes 1.3...I was going by memory.) But it is a very good tasting beer.

Ask the other Kotbusser people. See how their experiences relate.

 

[Suicid]

It may be in my head.

It is easy to test: use "independent" expert - just share this beer with some1, do not tell him/her whatsin and ask about his/her feels.

But it is a very good tasting beer.

No doubts it is. Just looking at grain bill - it can t be bad.

BTW: If you are interested in Kottbusser, HERE is a great thread covering that topic.

Cheers!

 

[fuelish]

Heck, you can make a hydromel (a lighter abv mead up to 7%-ish), using perhaps 6 or 7 lbs of honey to a total 5 gallon batch, and there will be little honey flavor, unless one uses a very "strong" flavored honey.... 1.5 oz of honey in 5 gallons of any beer will be undetectable,and not enough to even affect the alcohol level...am sure the beer tastes great, though It's all good

 

[myerstyson]

BTW: If you are interested in Kottbusser, HERE is a great thread covering that topic.

I'm all over that thread.