Saison brewing tips?

[rhys333]

Hey everyone,

I'm planning to brew my first saison when it warms up and I appreciate any tips you guys may have. I understand pils, munich and vienna malts are common, with crystal malts, wheat, and adjuncts sometimes used. I'm keeping it simple with the following:

80% Domestic 2 Row (not Pils)
10% Vienna
10% Dark Munich 30L
WY 3711 French Saison yeast

Thinking about 6.5% ABV with Tettnang bittering/late additions to ~35 IBU. I have access to Wyeast 3724 and 3711. From the Wyeast website 3711 sounds interesting and easier to deal with than 3724, so I'm going with that. I read saisons need 3 months conditioning, so I plan to brew in late May and have it ready by early September.

Any feedback on my grain bill, yeast choice and process greatly appreciated.

Austin.

EDIT: apparently I can't add, and thats sober too! 80% 2 Row, not 90%

 

[fermentology]

Three months for bottling conditioning? 3711 has a fast turn around so you could be drinking it in a month and a half or so if you so please.

 

[Arrheinous]

Think about the temperature you want to run with on this saison. You left that detail out.

Usually they need some of the higher temperatures but I've also seen cases where they start low and ramp high. Do you have the setup to reach 70-90F (21-32C)?

 

[botigol]

WY3711 is tasty and doesn't take that long to be ready to drink; 6-8 weeks. It does change with time, but you can definitely be drinking it along the way. I used 3711 in a dark Christmas saison December 2013 and fermented it in the low 60s, ambient temp, and it came out good. The yeast flavors were somewhat subdued, but still present. Ambient temp of 68-70 turned out better.

 

[porterpounder]

I like to blend the two yeasts. I like the flavor profile of the Belgian strain better, but the 3711 always finishes out strong and predictably where the Belgian gets finicky. No fuss, good results.

 

[rhys333]

Think about the temperature you want to run with on this saison. You left that detail out.

Usually they need some of the higher temperatures but I've also seen cases where they start low and ramp high. Do you have the setup to reach 70-90F (21-32C)?

Good point. If I brew in late Spring my basement is at cool room temp, so I was thinking 3711 would be perfect there with a heater belt at around 22-24C. If I do one in the full heat of summer, maybe I switch to the 3724?

 

[rhys333]

...the 3711 always finishes out strong and predictably where the Belgian gets finicky. No fuss, good results.

This was my thinking for my first time out the gate with a saison. Glad to hear I won't need to mess around with it.

 

[yeknom366]

Grain bill isn't the most important thing with a saison imo. As long as it's solid, the yeast will do the rest. I say go for it as is. I had mine with 3711 drinkable in 4 weeks, and fantastic at 6.

 

[rhys333]

That's what I wanna hear.

Thanks everyone for the advice on this.

Austin.

 

[sudbuddy]

3711 is my favorite yeast strain by far. It's a total workhorse and can really compliment citrusy hops if you ferment it in the 70's. Nobody has mentioned mash temperature yet and I think that it is critical for a saison. Shoot for a sacch rest at 145-149* and definitely not over 150*. The drier the better. Also, this summer I achieved 95% attenuation with a saison using 3711, so make sure you have plenty of fermentables to feed it. That yeast is ravenous!

 

[yeknom366]

Ditto on the high attenuation, I had 1.065 drop to 1.002.

 

[rhys333]

Ditto on the high attenuation, I had 1.065 drop to 1.002.

Was that with the 3724 or 3711? I don't want to ferment at 75 with 3711 to have it start up in the bottles when ambient temp gets high in summer.

EDIT: I see you commented regarding 3711. Do I need to crank my temp right up at the end then to make sure it's done? 95% attenuation up from the expected 77-83 is bottle bomb territory if the extra heat makes it kick back in.

 

[Arrheinous]

WLP565 and the other picky saison yeasts are fine as long as you have good control of the temperature. I let it get up to 90F from 75F at a ramp rate of 1-2C/day and it was great (my units are messed up because the STC-1000 I used only did metric). My setup is an old fridge with a ceramic heat and home-built BrewPi system but back then I was using an STC-1000 to control it.

Doing something like a Nelson Sauvin version of Dupont Moinette (8.5%) very soon.

 

[rhys333]

My setup is a brew belt with an outlet timer, so i won't have the fine control you have. I have no problem heating the fermentor to standard temps even when its cold, though i'm unsure if i can get it above high 70s

 

[rhys333]

So it turns out I have German 10L Munich rather than Canadian 30L, so my saison will be a really anemic 4 SRM. I'd like to give it a little 'colour in the cheeks' for presentation purposes, and a miniscule 5-8 grams of UK black patent (which I also have on hand) will give me around 5-5.5 SRM. I'm guessing this won't impact flavor in any appreciable way, but I've been wrong before. Am I buggering up the recipe with this?

 

[masscarriers]

I'd like to give it a little 'colour in the cheeks' for presentation purposes, and a miniscule 5-8 grams of UK black patent (which I also have on hand) will give me around 5-5.5 SRM. I'm guessing this won't impact flavor in any appreciable way, but I've been wrong before. Am I buggering up the recipe with this?

Indeed you won't taste anything under 10g, but I'm also pretty sure you won't notice a significant difference in 1-2 SRM even though the program tells you that. It's up to you in the end but I'd put some more, like maybe 25-30g.

 

[The10mmKid]

I've been adding ~2% Acidulated Malt in all my Saisons. Adds that Saison 'bite' I enjoy.

'da Kid

http://www.weyermann.de/eng/produkte.asp?idkat=16&umenue=yes&idmenue=0&sprache=2

 

[JF_HBrews]

Indeed you won't taste anything under 10g, but I'm also pretty sure you won't notice a significant difference in 1-2 SRM even though the program tells you that. It's up to you in the end but I'd put some more, like maybe 25-30g.

Ditto - (28 g = 1 oz and 5 gal ~ 19 L for those of us not using metric measures) you could add the black patent at the end of your mash if you have any worries about flavor impact. if you already brewed and know the color is too light you could also steep some black patent, strain/press, boil and add to your fermenter to adjust the color.

Others will say don't bother, if it tastes good drink it. I fall into the camp of you want what you want.

 

[rhys333]

Indeed you won't taste anything under 10g, but I'm also pretty sure you won't notice a significant difference in 1-2 SRM even though the program tells you that. It's up to you in the end but I'd put some more, like maybe 25-30g.

Thanks, I may increase it a bit then. I probably should have mentioned, the 5-8 grams was for a 3 gallon batch (indoor winter brewing), so it'd be double for your average 5.5 - 6 gal volume.

Also, JF - I may try the late mash addition. I've been dealing with bitterness issues on some of my browns and porters, so this is a technique I should probably start practicing.