Historical Beer: Sahti Sahti (Finnish Juniper Ale) -- 1st Place Cat. 23, 2nd place Best in Show

[macshomebrew]

I assume grains of paradise are the same as paradise seeds? Do you crack them first? Also I have dried Juniper Berries that I am using. Should I use the same amount as your recipe is calling for? Junipers do not grow in my area.

 

[Reno_eNVy]

I assume grains of paradise are the same as paradise seeds? Do you crack them first? Also I have dried Juniper Berries that I am using. Should I use the same amount as your recipe is calling for? Junipers do not grow in my area.

You know I'm not really sure on the berries. I'd recommend looking up conversions used when using the berries in food.

And yes, Grains of Paradise = Paradise Seeds

 

[kengetty]

I am in for the juniper berry & branch harvest if you have yet to do it.

Thanks!

 

[Reno_eNVy]

It's brew day! I'll be making this one exactly the same as last year and it'll hopefully be done by April 20th, the entry deadline for the local homebrew competition.

Sorry that I never started taking orders for juniper branches. I've been out of town for work since the beginning of February and I just got back the other day. When I stop feeling like a worthless pile I'll start harvesting.

 

[Reno_eNVy]

Boiling juniper branches

 

[Reno_eNVy]

Juniper liquor and dough in

 

[Reno_eNVy]

Boiling hard. Used fermcap for the first time and it is amazing!

 

[Reno_eNVy]

Racking!

 

[JakeB]

This sounds awesome, I'm very anxious to try this soon. My family's Norwegian, so I suppose a Finnish brew is close enough. I'm curious if you crack the paradise seeds at all, or do you just bag and boil them? Now I just have to track down some Juniper supplies in Cleveland.

 

[Reno_eNVy]

Yup, crack the grains of paradise and just toss them right in.

 

[BottleItUp]

I had to use dried juniper berries and Nottingham, but I did clip some fresh juniper branches.

The boil and fermentation smells were odd to me.

Now it is in a chilled secondary in an effort to clear, the smell is great.

I almost skipped on making this, but I'm glad I didn't. I'll report back when bottled and cracked open.

 

[strangegreenman]

I have a couple questions!
When making this, is Juniperus virginiana safe to use? most of the available juniper around here is J. savina, which is toxic.

Also, what character do the boughs add to this that the berries don't? Could I get away with using black tea and juniper berries and spruce essence instead?

Thank you so much for your help!

 

[podz]

The Finnish bread yeast is fresh, not dry. It's sold in every food store, even the small ones. It's in the cold cabinets, often right next to the milk. It's pretty small and only costs about 20 cents for a package.

It looks like this:

Easiest way to get some to the North American homebrewing crowd is for someone on a business trip to Finland to pick up a pack and bring it back, start to culture it and share it with others. It probably wouldn't make it past customs in the mail since it's fresh and not dry, but in personal luggage I doubt that it would be an issue.

By the way, "sahti" is prounced with a non-silent H (it's made by forcing your exhale to produce a sound against the top back of your upper palate). This sound doesn't belong to the native english speaker's tongue. And in finnish, the first syllable always receives the stress.

 

[Reno_eNVy]

I have a couple questions!
When making this, is Juniperus virginiana safe to use? most of the available juniper around here is J. savina, which is toxic.

Also, what character do the boughs add to this that the berries don't? Could I get away with using black tea and juniper berries and spruce essence instead?

Thank you so much for your help!

When you boil the boughs in your mash liquor you end up with a ton of sap that adds great piney, slightly sweet, and mildly bitter characters. I've tried brewing this with and without the boughs and it's definitely better with.

 

[forcenc]

Remember to drink it young and keep it cold, it goes infected very, very easy.
Oh and don't forget to build your own "kuurna", here's some pictures (yes it's finnish I know) http://sahti.vuodatus.net/blog/category/KUURINA+MALLEJA

I read the Kalevala last year and have been interested in brewing sahti since then. I don't think I understand why it would be more susceptible to infection than any other beer. Because there aren't any hops?

Thanks!

 

[Reno_eNVy]

There are multiple reasons traditional sahti would be more susceptible to infection:

- No hops, as you mentioned (though I include a tiny bit so I can call it a real beer)
- Traditional Finnish bread yeast might not be as fast acting as beer yeast. If I'm correct in that assumption, the longer lag phase could welcome infection
- Again, traditionally sahti is supposed to be no-boil

But if you do it traditionally (there's that word again!), you shouldn't even need to worry about infection. If I remember correctly, sahti was usually served young and right out of the fermentation vessel.

 

[podz]

- Traditional Finnish bread yeast might not be as fast acting as beer yeast. If I'm correct in that assumption, the longer lag phase could welcome infection

My wife uses the bread yeast I posted above when she makes sima. That is the "traditional" Finnish bread yeast. It starts fermentation within 24 hours, just like any other yeast.

Here in Finland, sahti is only sold retail in Alko because it's above 4.7% ABV. The sahti in Alko is between 7.5 and 10% ABV (there are a few different strengths) and it's kept inside a refrigerator, not out on the shelf. It can also be found in brewpubs around the country.

Here are the varieties available in Alko:

http://www.alko.fi/haku/?q=sahti

 

[CowboyNate]

Certainly. I'm in no rush. I've been thinking about this brew for a few years and with no juniper here, could not pull it off without some help. I really appreciate your time and effort. If there is anything I can ship out to you from the UP, let me know.

Ischiavo-
Why wouldn't you just go for a hike and pick some up? At least you should be able to hit a coast and snag it.
Juniperus Communis is pretty common in Michigan; I've seen it all over the LP and I'll bet dollars to donuts it's at least on the coasts of the UP in a readily findable level.

Check this:
http://michiganflora.net/species.aspx?id=887
Plus the wiki page has good info on identification if this doesn't cut it. I'm not sure if I can grab some in Livingston County, but I know it's along the coasts of north LP (Huron shore) and I'm almost positive I've seen it along the Michigan shore, too.

Just a thought: you may be sitting on a treasure trove....

(I'll combine hobbies: geocaching and brewing so I can go out in the woods and get the juniper I'd love to try this with!)

Nate

 

[strangegreenman]

Hi again! Thanks for the information about using the boughs. I am a bit concerned about using my local species, J. virginiana, since a lot of websites suggest the branches may be poisonous/irritating (and a lot of others say nothing or suggest they're usable). Has anyone on here brewed with them? Are they safe or did they give you a stomachache?

Not sure what I am going to use for my brew today, spruce twigs or the redcedar twigs I cut yesterday...

Thanks for your help!
SGM

UPDATE: I used blue spruce branches for the mash liquor and to lauter through instead of juniper. Wow, did that smell good! It gave an amber, piney, sappy strike water like you decribed, Reno. It's got Wyeast Weihenstephan Weizen working on it right now (admittedly I'm using my own recipe, but I borrowed heavily on yours) and I can't wait to taste this beer. Also, I don't think I've ever tasted or smelled anything like paradise seeds before in my life. Thanks for posting this recipe and information!

 

[strangegreenman]

One more update, since I love this thread to pieces.
J. Virginiana probably contains a safe level of thujone to brew with. That said...

My batch of Sahti is fully mature now. Malty, spicy beer, graham-cracker taste, with banana and pine in the back of the nose. The sap bittered the beer very well, too.
It's a different beer than yours, half rye, half pilsner malt and fermented on a weizen yeast, but I wanted to say brewing with spruce/juniper sap and juniper berries is just lovely. Thank you for teaching me how to do it properly!

 

[Reno_eNVy]

I'm glad you get such enjoyment from this style. The half rye, half pils version sounds really good.

 

[IslandLizard]

The Finnish bread yeast is fresh, not dry. It's sold in every food store, even the small ones. It's in the cold cabinets, often right next to the milk. It's pretty small and only costs about 20 cents for a package.

It looks like this:

Easiest way to get some to the North American homebrewing crowd is for someone on a business trip to Finland to pick up a pack and bring it back, start to culture it and share it with others. It probably wouldn't make it past customs in the mail since it's fresh and not dry, but in personal luggage I doubt that it would be an issue.

By the way, "sahti" is prounced with a non-silent H (it's made by forcing your exhale to produce a sound against the top back of your upper palate). This sound doesn't belong to the native english speaker's tongue. And in finnish, the first syllable always receives the stress.

We have yeast cakes like that in the US. But they are becoming less common anymore, since three 7-gram sachets of dry yeast (21 grams or 3/4 ounce total) can be sold for $2.50 and up. That yields a much higher profit for the retailer and manufacturer, than selling the much larger fresh yeast cakes for less (used to be $1 for 2 ounces). Yeast cakes don't stay fresh as long, they tend to dry out and darken, while dry yeast can last over 2 years in the fridge. That's another incentive for retailers to discontinue the cakes.

I used to buy fresh yeast from the bakeries. I just ask for it. I paid $1 for a 4-6 ounce slice, and I think they felt bad charging me *that* much. Of course I bought their bread too.

Now I don't have any bakeries nearby, so I buy dry bread yeast @ $4.50 for two 1-pound bricks, at Sam's Club, a large "warehouse" type store. Lasts for years in the freezer. Just keep it dry.

I never brewed beer with it, though.

 

[Reno_eNVy]

I believe the Finnish bread yeast is supposed to add something special, from what I've read about traditional recipes.

 

[strangegreenman]

I'm glad you get such enjoyment from this style. The half rye, half pils version sounds really good.

I believe the Finnish bread yeast is supposed to add something special, from what I've read about traditional recipes.

I think it's supposed to add a bit of flavors, which is why I chose Weihenstephan Weizen for this batch. It really does add a lot to the final flavor profile.

 

[rideincircles]

I will be heading to Finland next week for 3.5 weeks to visit family and will be getting some Sahti when I am there after reading about it. Not sure where to find juniper in Texas or if it native around here, but will consider this later. May grab some of the yeast to throw in my suitcase on the way back.

 

[podz]

I will be heading to Finland next week for 3.5 weeks to visit family and will be getting some Sahti when I am there after reading about it. Not sure where to find juniper in Texas or if it native around here, but will consider this later. May grab some of the yeast to throw in my suitcase on the way back.

Staying in or near Helsinki?

 

[rideincircles]

Staying in or near Helsinki?

I will be staying in Helsinki at first, then traveling to Toivakka to my aunt and uncles cabin, then heading to ilosaarirock festival in Joensuu for the weekend to catch Portishead, Alice and Chains and Trentemoller, then off to Kuoppio to a summer cabin another uncle rented, I think then to Rovaniemi in the Arctic Circle next and possibly oulu and Turku after that then back to Helsinki. Definitely will be all over, but will be there from July 5th-29th. My mom lives in Helsinki and I have a dozen aunts and uncles who live all over Finland. Trying to see as much as possible, but I have only been there twice and my mom moved back in 2008. Last I went was in 2008 and I really liked Olvi back then and newcastle was my favorite beer at the time. My tastes have definitely changed since then. Going to see whats available and just went thru the beer list at Alko. My mom lives right by Itakeskus.

 

[podz]

My mom lives right by Itakeskus.

That's about 15-20 minutes drive from where I live (I'm pretty close to the airport).

By the way, you can buy Sahti in Alko, too.

Might want to bring a warm jacket, hat and a pair of gloves. This has been the coldest summer in more than 50 years and not much sun either, lots of rain. Average daytime temperatures have been about 55 F, with nights even 40 F. I've never seen anything like this before. It has been raining ice balls here in my back yard more than once in the past few weeks. They are saying that it might warm up finally, but I wouldn't place my bets on it.

I usually go for at least two months without wearing socks at all, just sandals. This summer, I've only been able to wear sandals for a few days.

 

[LovesIPA]

Question for Reno envy - do you also own the boutique store by the same name in downtown Reno?

Next time I head up that way I will have to grab some juniper branches to try this recipe. Sounds good!

 

[Reno_eNVy]

Nah, not affiliated with the company.

If you come in to find some I recommend Verdi (just between Reno and the border) or Hidden Valley (far East side of the Truckee Meadows.)