Safety Concern: 2 gal Rubbermaid Victory water "jug"?

[schreck]

I decided to switch to 5gal partial mash to safe some $$ (in addition to saving the yeast cakes.. yumm) while hoping to combine the ability to do 3gal or 2.5 gal AG.

I have already done the BIAB method thanks to DeathBrewer :rockin: , but i rather get as close to all grain as my current set up will afford, and allow! Im currently stuck with a small kitchen and a coil stove top with a lower and upper oven (meaning i only have clearance for my 4 gal stock pot!!). I embrace what i have to work with... just want to get deeper and deeper into brewing.

I thought about converting another 5gal icing bucket acquired free from Sams Club's Bakery into a bottling bucket, and using that as a really really cheap mash tun. I wasnt too keen on the idea of having NO insulation, so i decided id follow the wiki to create my own 2-3gal rubbermaid conversion so i could mash and batch sparge without worrying about temp and getting another stock pot.

I had a really really hard time finding water cooler jugs (brick & mortar), but eventually found a selection of 2 gal, 1 gal and a 1/2 gal rubbermaid jugs at a local drug store/pharmacy right around the corner. I really wanted the 3 gal so i could handle more grains if i choose to do a 3 gal big beer. Had to settle for a 2 gal jug, only problem is i cant find anything about it being food grade, or anything about heat ratings.

Heres what i picked up for ~17 after tax - http://www.rubbermaid.com/Category/...e=Coolers&SubcatId=WaterJugs&Prod_ID=RP091238

I have searched the forums, i found info on the victory, but not the 2 gal victory jug - so i just wanted to make sure (especially since the lid is no 5 plastic, and specifically states not for use with hot liquids). The lid is strictly plastic (no insulation).

1. Has anyone added foam to regulate the temps better and protect that no. 5 plastic??
--If i chose not to insulate would it still be safe to use?

2. Does anyone know if these coolers are food grade (hdpe.. i assume?)?

3. Would a 2 gal be sufficient for a 3 gal AG batch?
--how many lbs of grain can a 2 gal handle vs 3 gal cooler?

Id like to have the ability to do some big beers..

4. I have a grain bag - Do i use it inside the cooler to avoid a std conversion?
--Or, do the benefits of the conversion and the ss braided line outweigh the $$

Lots of ?'s i know, i did plenty of searches on this but couldnt find the answers. Im brewing a mini mash with my cousin tomorrow... itl be his first brew day!!, hope to convert him


THANKS IN ADVANCE!

 

[AiredAle]

Here are some answers to your questions:

1. Plastic #5 is polypropylene. Chances are the interior of your cooler is made of this plastic too. I think most coolers are constructed of PP. When you mean insulate the lid, do you mean fill in the hollow part of the lid, or add insulation to the underside of the lid? I have filled cooler lids, like many others have, with GreatStuff foam insulation in a can. There may be a hole in the middle underside of the lid that has a little plug in it that you can pry out and stick the foam applicator tube into. I don't know, if it will be safe uninsulated, but I suspect the entire cooler is made of food grade plastic, since it's intended use is for beverages for people. You will get a better answer if you call Rubbermaid customer service and ask them.

2. I think I just answered this question. I bet it is food grade, it has to be if it is sold to hold stuff for human consumption.

3. I don't think a 2 gallon cooler will be sufficient for most 3 gallon AG batches. Referring to the "This is how big your mash tun needs to be" sticky on the Equipment and Sanitation page of this forum, you could make a maximum 40 gravity 3 gallon batch from this cooler. Here's the calculation - at 1.25 qts of water per pound of malt, you can fit 2.4 lbs with water in a gallon of mash tun space, so your 2 gallons gets you 4.8 lbs of grain, that's 120 points of extract, divided by 3 gallons of finished wort, that's a 40 gravity beer. You could bump this up with extract if you wanted. A 3 gallon cooler can hold 7.2 lbs of grain at 1.25 qts water per pound of malt. This would give you a max gravity of 60 in 3 gallons at 70% efficiency. This is just theoretical calculations based on the sticky above, I have never used a small cooler for mashing. Others who have can correct me.

4. I would do the braid and valve conversion, I don't think it's too costly. Or put some kind of false bottom in the cooler to keep the bag above the level of the drain, and see what happens.

Hope this helps. I would be inclined to get a 5 gallon cooler and convert it, given your boiling constraints. This will hold all the grain you will ever need for 3 gallon batches, and for most batches of normal gravity, you will have lots of room to stir and add sparge water without worrying about splashing it about. Plus you can make a 60 gravity 5 gallon batch if you ever want to.

 

[schreck]

Seems like that was enough to convince me to go with a 5 gal cooler right off the bat - especially since i DO plan on doing 3 gal AG and i DO plan to try some big beers, but mostly itl be my mini mash tun.

I have read enough trough the forums, and like most concluded that a 5 gal cooler will hold the heat even when mashing only 5# of grain. I cant forsee any problems using a 5 gal for mini mash tun. I am curious about this piece of foam people recommend putting down on top of the mash/water line when doing a partial mash in a larger cooler. What kind of foam is this specifically, and is it available at a local hardware store - or a home depot?

THANKS

p.s. waiting for a reply from rubbermaid customer support..

 

[BadKarma]

I brew 2.5-3 gal batches AG and I use a 3 gal cooler for the mid to smaller grain bills. For the bigger grain bills I use my 5 gal. works fine for me.

Igloo makes a 3 gal and gott/rubbermaid makes the one I have.

 

[schreck]

Just got an email response about the rubbermaid coolers (this was not a gott cooler, but the victory line of coolers).

Thank you for your interest in Rubbermaid, and for taking the time to contact us regarding your product. We appreciate loyal consumers like you.

The liner of our water jugs is made of a food grade impact copolymer.

The water jugs were not designed for hot beverages and we do not recommend using them for hot beverages. However, the FDA approved material used on the interior of the water jugs can handle liquids up to 120°F. We have not tested or verified this - it's strictly based off of the material specs.

Thank you for giving us the opportunity to address your concern

Sincerely,

Beryl First

Consumer Service Representative

Rubbermaid

Phone: 888-895-2110

Based on this info (which is also adjusted for liability purposess, i.e. starsan contact times, etc) I just want to make sure i buy the correct model 5 gal cooler to avoid any off flavors etc from the interior material. (warping is not an issue) Which "jug" style brand/models are people using in the 5 gal size. If the rubbermaid victory 5 gal is reccomended, i can get it via a direct/wholesale price.

Thanks!