Safale US-05 near 72 hours and no activity

[beauvafr]

Strange. first time I use this strain. But it's also the first time I got this lag.

I did rehydrate the yeast. 15 min soaking @90F, a shake and then another 30 min waiting with intermittent shakes. Pitched at 70F, aerate, then let it rest 66-68F waiting for the thing to start.

Should I pitch another pack of US-05 ?

 

[nicklepickles]

Typically you dont rehydrate us-05 and other fermentis strains, just pitch and let it go. Check the gravity, if it hasnt started then throw in another pack without rehydrating

 

[beauvafr]

@nicklepickles I tought rehydrating was a 'nice to have' but not mandatory. Can it actually made the thing worse ?

 

[PseudoChef]

Typically you dont rehydrate us-05 and other fermentis strains, just pitch and let it go. Check the gravity, if it hasnt started then throw in another pack without rehydrating

If you don't rehydrate, you're killing off about half the yeast.

 

[beauvafr]

So I did nothing wrong.. Bad yeast batch?

 

[brew_ny]

So I did nothing wrong.. Bad yeast batch?

when you rehydrated the yeast did you see activity? you should have seen it get foamy

I always rehydrate my dry yeast then mix a bit of wort in with to get it to the same temp as the wort I am pitching it in

all the best

S_M

 

[BigFloyd]

Typically you dont rehydrate us-05 and other fermentis strains, just pitch and let it go. Check the gravity, if it hasnt started then throw in another pack without rehydrating

I rehydrate all dry yeast, including US-05 and S-04. Good results with both.

To the OP, what do you mean by "no activity"? No airlock bubbles? Fortunately, that's not conclusive. Any small leak in your bucket lid (or carboy stopper) will allow the CO2 to escape via that route of least resistance. The only way to know for sure is to take a gravity reading. From what you described doing, you may well have fermentation happening just fine. US-05 is pretty darn reliable.

 

[boydster]

I rehydrate all dry yeast, including US-05 and S-04. Good results with both.

To the OP, what do you mean by "no activity"? No airlock bubbles? Fortunately, that's not conclusive. Any small leak in your bucket lid (or carboy stopper) will allow the CO2 to escape via that route of least resistance. The only way to know for sure is to take a gravity reading. From what you described doing, you may well have fermentation happening just fine. US-05 is pretty darn reliable.

+1 to all of this.

 

[Setesh]

This is called 'proofing' the yeast, and is a very good idea. You add a bit of wort or you can even boils some water/sugar and let it cool and add that. If the yeast are alive you will see foam/bubbles on top of the mixture. This lets you know that they are alive and well. You definitely did the right thing by rehydrating dry yeast. Osmotic shock would have killed about 50% of the cells had you pitched directly into the wort. Even if you don't care that your pitching rate just went down by 50% you have a bunch of dead yeast that are going to settle to the bottom and begin to break down. It's a lose/lose not to rehydrate.

 

[BigFloyd]

This is called 'proofing' the yeast, and is a very good idea. You add a bit of wort or you can even boils some water/sugar and let it cool and add that. If the yeast are alive you will see foam/bubbles on top of the mixture. This lets you know that they are alive and well. You definitely did the right thing by rehydrating dry yeast. Osmotic shock would have killed about 50% of the cells had you pitched directly into the wort. Even if you don't care that your pitching rate just went down by 50% you have a bunch of dead yeast that are going to settle to the bottom and begin to break down. It's a lose/lose not to rehydrate.

+1 to everything except the reference to "proofing". I've never heard that any of the dry yeast makers suggest proofing. It's something you do with liquid yeast when you have doubts about the viability. Dry yeast has to be pretty darn old or really abused for that to be an issue.

What brew_ny described is called "attemperating" and is an essential part of rehydrating dry yeast. You want to get the rehydrated yeast to within 10-15*F of the temp of the wort before pitching. It's done by adding small amounts of the wort (which should be in the low 60's) to the warmer yeast slurry a bit at a time to slowly lower the temperature of the yeast. I find that is normally takes 3-4 additions of wort (3-5 minutes apart) into the yeast slurry to get the temp low enough to pitch. You can do this after chilling the wort, but still waiting for the suspended gunk to settle to the bottom of the kettle.

It's sort of like when you bring a fish home from the pet store. You don't just dump it into your aquarium. You put the bag in there for several minutes so that the temps get close enough for the fish to make a smooth transition.

 

[GilSwillBasementBrews]

If you don't rehydrate, you're killing off about half the yeast.

I'm not trying to nit pick here but how is rehydrating by adding fermentable liquid to yeast any different then pitching yeast into your fermentable wort? I've heard a lot of people argue both ways on rehydrating. The only reason I could see any difference was if the yeast is bad you wouldn't have bad/dead yeast in your brew. But adding some wort to the yeast to see if its viable. Isn't that the same as adding the yeast to your fermentable wort?

Just trying to find a definitive answer one way or the other. I just don't see any difference. Why would 50% of my yeast die if I threw it in my wort. But if I added a smaller portion of wort to my yeast sample it will miraculously be better?

 

[Setesh]

+1 to everything except the reference to "proofing". I've never heard that any of the dry yeast makers suggest proofing. It's something you do with liquid yeast when you have doubts about the viability. Dry yeast has to be pretty darn old or really abused for that to be an issue.

That's very true about attemperating the yeast, and that is also important to do. Otherwise they have a thermal shock to deal with. But proofing dry yeast is pretty common, especially to bakers. But as far as brewing goes my LHBS owner advised me to do it and Palmer mentions it in How To Brew

http://www.howtobrew.com/section1/chapter6-5.html

First paragraph. Any time I get yeast in the mail I assume it has had a rough time of it. I almost always proof to make sure they yeasties are awake and ready to work. I guess it just makes me feel better. I don't feel like I have to go check for signs of fermentation constantly. I can be a bit of a nervous beer dad otherwise

 

[Setesh]

I'm not trying to nit pick here but how is rehydrating by adding fermentable liquid to yeast any different then pitching yeast into your fermentable wort? I've heard a lot of people argue both ways on rehydrating. The only reason I could see any difference was if the yeast is bad you wouldn't have bad/dead yeast in your brew. But adding some wort to the yeast to see if its viable. Isn't that the same as adding the yeast to your fermentable wort?

Just trying to find a definitive answer one way or the other. I just don't see any difference. Why would 50% of my yeast die if I threw it in my wort. But if I added a smaller portion of wort to my yeast sample it will miraculously be better?

You aren't adding fermentable wort to rehydrate. You rehydrate with water THEN you add wort to bring the temperature of the yeast mixture down to that of the beer. By the time you add the wort the yeast have already gone through their rehydration, you are just trying to get the temps close before pitching.

 

[beauvafr]

when you rehydrated the yeast did you see activity? you should have seen it get foamy

I always rehydrate my dry yeast then mix a bit of wort in with to get it to the same temp as the wort I am pitching it in

all the best

S_M

Yes, i did get the foam. Great trick for the wort mix. I'll do it next time. Cheers!

 

[beauvafr]

I rehydrate all dry yeast, including US-05 and S-04. Good results with both.

To the OP, what do you mean by "no activity"? No airlock bubbles? Fortunately, that's not conclusive. Any small leak in your bucket lid (or carboy stopper) will allow the CO2 to escape via that route of least resistance. The only way to know for sure is to take a gravity reading. From what you described doing, you may well have fermentation happening just fine. US-05 is pretty darn reliable.

Yup, no airlock bubbles. I will look for leak tomorrow first thing in the morning.

 

[GilSwillBasementBrews]

You aren't adding fermentable wort to rehydrate. You rehydrate with water THEN you add wort to bring the temperature of the yeast mixture down to that of the beer. By the time you add the wort the yeast have already gone through their rehydration, you are just trying to get the temps close before pitching.

Ok that makes more sense. I guess I was just confused by your earlier post on using sugar/water or wort. I still am unsure why the yeast would need to be hydrated to have fermentables added to them but I digress. Thanks for the knowledge. Always plenty of it floating around on here to learn something from someone.

Originally Posted by Setesh
This is called 'proofing' the yeast, and is a very good idea. You add a bit of wort or you can even boils some water/sugar and let it cool and add that. If the yeast are alive you will see foam/bubbles on top of the mixture. This lets you know that they are alive and well. You definitely did the right thing by rehydrating dry yeast. Osmotic shock would have killed about 50% of the cells had you pitched directly into the wort. Even if you don't care that your pitching rate just went down by 50% you have a bunch of dead yeast that are going to settle to the bottom and begin to break down. It's a lose/lose not to rehydrate.

 

[gator777]

I just went through the same thing bro, the best thing is to check your gravity.

 

[BigFloyd]

Yup, no airlock bubbles. I will look for leak tomorrow first thing in the morning.

While you're at it, that would be a fine time to check the gravity and compare it to the OG. What was your OG?

 

[JoeSpartaNJ]

I use US-05 a lot and depending on your OG it could be done. It's a fast working yeast. if your fermenter is not sealed thoroughly, you may not get any airlock activity, it has happened to me quite a few times.

 

[beauvafr]

When I opened it there was nice layer of kreusen. 2 days ago there was only some froth spot. So I was pretty sure you guys were right and there was a leak somewhere. Gravity were down from 1.59 to 1.054. So maybe not a strong start, but I'm confident it should go well now that real activity has shown.

And I finally found the leak (stupid lid!). Now the airlock is popping regularly under 10 seconds!

In the end I learned some tricks about yeast (thanks to you guys), I learned that airlock is not the real indication of an healthy fermentation, and also that I should get another PET bottle to replace my bucket.

Cheers!

 

[BigFloyd]

When I opened it there was nice layer of kreusen. 2 days ago there was only some froth spot. So I was pretty sure you guys were right and there was a leak somewhere. Gravity were down from 1.59 to 1.054. So maybe not a strong start, but I'm confident it should go well now that real activity has shown.

And I finally found the leak (stupid lid!). Now the airlock is popping regularly under 10 seconds!

In the end I learned some tricks about yeast (thanks to you guys), I learned that airlock is not the real indication of an healthy fermentation, and also that I should get another PET bottle to replace my bucket.

Cheers!

Don't give up on the bucket just because of this. I'm a fan of buckets and that's primarily what I use. You just have to make sure that you press down all around the lid. I haven't had one fail to seal yet, although it's bound to happen one of these days.

Oh, you may be missing a zero in what you posted for your OG.

 

[beauvafr]

Don't give up on the bucket just because of this. I'm a fan of buckets and that's primarily what I use. You just have to make sure that you press down all around the lid. I haven't had one fail to seal yet, although it's bound to happen one of these days.

Oh, you may be missing a zero in what you posted for your OG.

You got it, a zero I missed As for the bucket, it's usable (since I will not make the error again) but I also like to be able to see through it. A better bottle / carboy is perfect for this. I also had a bucket that got messy inside while doing a saison on high temps and now it is permanently stained.. I know it's not that bad but I don't like the idea of fermenting in a stained vessel.

 

[wrongdekade]

I just used us-05 too and had no airlock activity. I saw the krusen in the bucket and can't seem to find any leaks. Just confused.

 

[Denny's Evil Concoctions]

Typically you dont rehydrate us-05 and other fermentis strains, just pitch and let it go. Check the gravity, if it hasnt started then throw in another pack without rehydrating

That's poor practice as the osmotic pressure difference will kill a lot of the yeast cells.

If you don't rehydrate, you're killing off about half the yeast.

Exactly/

I'm not trying to nit pick here but how is rehydrating by adding fermentable liquid to yeast any different then pitching yeast into your fermentable wort? I've heard a lot of people argue both ways on rehydrating. The only reason I could see any difference was if the yeast is bad you wouldn't have bad/dead yeast in your brew. But adding some wort to the yeast to see if its viable. Isn't that the same as adding the yeast to your fermentable wort?

Just trying to find a definitive answer one way or the other. I just don't see any difference. Why would 50% of my yeast die if I threw it in my wort. But if I added a smaller portion of wort to my yeast sample it will miraculously be better?

You don't add it to a small sample of wort. You rehydrate in water. As the dehydrated yeast is being hydrated it is highly vulnerable to osmotic pressure due to a weakened cell wall. Adding it to wort is like smacking it in the face with a sledge hammer. Dry yeast is also coated with yeast nutrient and needs some time to absorb the yeasts version of Popeyes spinach.

You can add wort to the fully rehydrated yeast in order to bring it to the wort temperature before pitching.

I just used us-05 too and had no airlock activity. I saw the krusen in the bucket and can't seem to find any leaks. Just confused.

Buckets are notorious for not sealing 100%. DOn't worry about it. A hydrometer or refractometer are the only real ways to tell how the yeast is progressing. Krausen is a good sign of yeast activity but often less noticeable if say using a lager yeast.

 

[masskrug]

Buckets are notorious for not sealing 100%. Don't worry about it. A hydrometer or refractometer are the only real ways to tell how the yeast is progressing. Krausen is a good sign of yeast activity but often less noticeable if say using a lager yeast.

+1. I bought a new bucket and used an old lid on my last 2 batches. No airlock activity, but after 3 weeks the beers finished at 1.015.

 

[ObsidianJester]

Buckets are hit or miss. I've found that as I match buckets to lids that seal the air lock bubbles better. But I've got some buckets that wont seal with anything and the only way I really see anything is when 2 weeks has passed and I crack the lid to see activity like a yeast ring above the beer line.

I've done both with dry yeast though, pitched it right in (just this week to save a batch that was apparently a dead Wyeast 1026) And re hydrated before use.

Proofing your yeast is never a bad idea, especially if you get it mail order.

 

[Setesh]

US-05 in homebrew form - instructions say to sprinkle into wort.
US-05 in professional brewer form - instructions say must be properly rehydrated.
Interesting double standard

 

[boydster]

US-05 in homebrew form - instructions say to sprinkle into wort.
US-05 in professional brewer form - instructions say must be properly rehydrated.
Interesting double standard

Fermentis recommends rehydrating. Their data sheet describes rehydrating as does a child-website of theirs: http://www.brewwithfermentis.com/tips-tricks/yeast-rehydration/

You should rehydrate.

Also, as far as instructions on packaging is concerned, WL vials and Wyeast Smack packs say to pitch directly with no starter. If you follow liquid instructions on the package, you pitch about 100 billion cells. If you follow dry package instructions, you pitch about 100 billion cells. At least they are all consistent in giving bad advice on the packaging, right?

 

[Jacinthebox]

I have pitched both ways with this yeast. Same lag time. Finishes at the same time.
I like the idea of dry pitching. Less chance of the introduction of infections (although I've never had an infection due to re-hydrating.)

 

[boydster]

I have pitched both ways with this yeast. Same lag time. Finishes at the same time.
I like the idea of dry pitching. Less chance of the introduction of infections (although I've never had an infection due to re-hydrating.)

Do what you like and what works for you.

The science is in on this issue and it's been covered on multiple threads as well as other websites and books. You stress the yeast substantially and kill up to half of the cells you pitch when you don't properly rehydrate, plain and simple. You'll still make beer though, just like when you direct pitch a vial with no starter. If you are going to spend time crafting a recipe, following best practices in making your wort with quality ingredients, and wait as long as you need to in order to have a delicious home brew, I just don't understand why someone wouldn't do the best thing for their yeast. They are what makes the beer, after all. That's ok though, I don't need to understand. As long as you know what happens pitching dry vs rehydrating, the choice is yours and so is the beer.