S-23 Time and Temp

[brewpharm Hill]

Looking forward to tasting results from yall!

 

[Protos]

i wish yeast could talk and complain about something like that!

If yeasts could talk... I guess, they'd start with complaints more substantial than decimals in F/C convertion.
"What a sh@t are you going to brew with me? Where did you get this hipster recipe with 12 malts, mashed potatoes and 200 IBU? No way will I ferment a slop like this, change the fricking recipe or I promise you, I'll give you some sulphury rubber and stuck at 1.040!!!".

 

[bracconiere]

well it's in kegs, first taste, it's really not all that good. but it took from the 13th, to the 23rd to ferment....and i did have to raise the temp, maybe because of the pitch rate. can't say for sure.

 

[Slim M]

well it's in kegs, first taste, it's really not all that good. but it took from the 13th, to the 23rd to ferment....and i did have to raise the temp, maybe because of the pitch rate. can't say for sure.

Give it a couple weeks in the cold and try it again it will probably have improved drastically. What was the FG?

 

[bracconiere]

What was the FG?

i kegged it at 1.002...about 8% ABV and 168 calories a 12 oz pour....

 

[duncan_disorderly]

I like S-23 very much. I like it way more than W34/70, it's a unique strain that produces a clean Lager with a tiniest bit estery oomph.
It's not an all-purpose Lager yeast though. It won't make a perfect German Pilsner: it's a bit too oomphy for that.
However, it's the only dry yeast to make the genuine Wiener Lager. Also, it's the best dry option for the true historical Polish Baltic Porter. Much better than M84.
I think of it as of perfect yeast for all things Austro-Hungarian, be that Wiener or all sorts of Bohemian. And also for all things Polish: Baltic Porter and Polish Pilsners that stand closer to Czech than to German.
Wiener, Czech & Polish Lagers, Baltic Porter. That's all.
Don't try anything German or "International", you'll be disappointed (and that's where most of the complains for this yeast comes from). I don't know much about S-23 in American recipes, I rarely brew American Lagers, and when I do I use W34/70.

It's a warm-loving yeast. 51F is a bit too cold for it. At such a low temp it could just drop off (another reason for many internet complaints). I ferment it no lower than 12C/54F, and ideally at 14C/57F. It must have some tiny esters, it's not a fault with this strain.

What kind of attenuation do you get, Protos? Cheers.

 

[nanobrau]

Just adding a data point here since I tasted my new Pilsner today: Pitched 0.6g/L of S-23 at 60F, and raised to 63F after 5 days. Both aroma and flavor is pear cider. I have fermented S-23 cleanly before, but that beer did age for quite some time. I will probably need to let this one sit another month or two. I realize my pitching rate is low and that likely contributed. I just didn't realize how estery S-23 could be until now.

 

[Protos]

What kind of attenuation do you get, Protos? Cheers.

Just noticed your question.
Well, the median attenuation for some 25 beers I've brewed with it is 80%. Mostly 77% but sometimes up to 86% in a highly fermentable wort (no decoction, mashing low and long, no alpha-amylase rest). Never less than 75%.

 

[Protos]

Pitched 0.6g/L of S-23 at 60F, and raised to 63F after 5 days

I routinely pitch S-23 at 0.6 g/L and I won't say I'm getting excessive esters. It's rather the temperature that's bit too high. With 60F/15C pitching temp and raising soon to 63F/17C I'd expect a pretty estery brew.
I got the best results pitching at 12C/54F and raising to 14C/57F. I may go up to 63 or even 65F for a D-rest but not earlier that after day 10 when the fermentation is almost complete.

This yeast has actually quite a narrow optimal temp range. Too low, and it craps out. Too high, and it throws esters. That's where all the bad rap comes from. But when you're keeping within its preferred range, it produces great beers. I love it and I have 3 Lagers fermenting with it right now: a classic Wiener, a Polish Pilsener and a Bohemian Dunkel. A Baltic Porter and a Budweiser clone (the Czech original one, not an American Bud) are in the line to brew with S-23 in this lagering season too.

 

[dmtaylor]

Last week I bottled a side-by-side yeast experiment of my Czech dark lager with S-23 vs. WLP833. At bottling I thought I preferred the S-23, but we'll see what happens after carbonation. Both were pretty clean, negligible esters, low sulfur, no diacetyl. The S-23 seemed smoother and the WLP833 more bitter, which is the opposite of what I'd expected. Both were fermented at 61 F (16 C) for the first week, then brought up to 67 F (room temp) for another week, followed by another couple weeks at 61 F. Both attenuated the same 77%. Can't wait to taste these carbonated, maybe will pop the first ones later this weekend. IF I remember (BIG IF), I might post some tasting notes later.

 

[Slim M]

Just adding a data point here since I tasted my new Pilsner today: Pitched 0.6g/L of S-23 at 60F, and raised to 63F after 5 days. Both aroma and flavor is pear cider. I have fermented S-23 cleanly before, but that beer did age for quite some time. I will probably need to let this one sit another month or two. I realize my pitching rate is low and that likely contributed. I just didn't realize how estery S-23 could be until now.

Recent similar experience. Pitched s23 around 58 fermented around 60-62 for 7 days then up to 67 for 5 days. When sampling at keging it was a fruit basket. It anticipated dumping it but decided to give a little time. 5 weeks later it wasn’t bad still had a very slight fruit taste I could sometimes detect & sometimes not. Lesson learned I guess but I didn’t have to dump it I could tolerate it ok. It actually isn’t bad just not what I was after.

 

[nanobrau]

I got the best results pitching at 12C/54F and raising to 14C/57F. I may go up to 63 or even 65F for a D-rest but not earlier that after day 10 when the fermentation is almost complete.

This is good to hear. I brewed a Marzen and pitched it onto the S-23 yeast cake from the Pilsner. Fermented at 54F and raised to 60F after 5 days. It will be interesting to see if it comes out significantly cleaner.

 

[Protos]

Well, be aware it won't be as clean as, f. ex., M76 or Diamond, even if fermented cool.
That's why I use S-23 only in those styles where a slight ester whiff is expected to be present (in Austrian, Polish and Bohemian Lagers, never in German or Scandinavian).
At those temperatures that you refer I was getting beers very pleasant and spot on the style (actually, the Wiener Lager I made last year with S-23 turned out the best one of circa 270 batches I've ever brewed). A bit of fruity esters was obviously present but not excessive, intrusive or overwhelming.
For Märzen, me personally would choose a Bavarian, not a Bohemian strain, as historicaly Märzen is, so to speak, a "Bavarian beer with an Austro-Hungarian grist", unlike the rest of Bavarian beers, that were either dark (Dunkel) or pale (Helles). Anyway, S-23 is a great choise for the style as well.

 

[nanobrau]

Recap on my data points now that the Marzen is drinkable:
* Pilsner pitched with 0.6g/L of S-23 at 60F. Raised to 63F after 5 days = Pear cider in both aroma and flavor.
* Marzen pitched onto the Pilsner's yeast cake at 54F. Raised to 60F after 5 days = Mostly clean. Very subtle strawberry/cherry flavor that I can only really detect when the carbonation is allowed to go flat, but its possible this was a factor from the Munich malt (100% of the grist). No fruitiness in aroma.

In summary: Pitch a lot of healthy yeast and ferment in the low to mid 50s unless you want lots of fruitiness with S-23.

 

[dmtaylor]

I enjoyed my S-23 Czech Dark this evening on its own. Turns out that last month when I did a side by side tasting vs. WLP833, I much preferred the S-23. I'll do another side by side one of these days in the next few weeks now that the WLP833 has had more time to mellow out (I think it was a little sulfury last time).