S-189 and diacetyl

[csantoni]

Almost all my beers seem to need extra time to get rid of all the diacetyl, even a recent ale with Notty was a diacetyl bomb for the last few days in the fermenter.

I currently have 3.5 gals of Oktoberfest on day 12 since pitching 2 packs of S-189. I intentionally overpitched since it's a lager and my aforementioned diacetyl issues. Primary fermentation was pretty much done in four days at 55 degrees so with about 2 points remaining to expected FG I ramped the temp to 62. 3 days later it was still really buttery so I took to 65. I'm still getting lots of diacetyl today after 4 days at 65.

Would taking the temp up to 70 or 72 help? The temp range for this yeast says up to 72 but I don't know if higher temps will help or if I just need to wait. I really wanted to brew this weekend but I'm not packaging this beer until I can't taste any butter.

Recipe in case it matters:
Batch size 3.625 gals to get 3 gals packaged
3.25 lbs MO
3.25 lbs Munich I
1 lb Caramel 40L
2 oz Hallertauer Mittlefreuh (half FWH, half 170F whirlpool 10 mins)
2 packs S-189
OG 1.060
Est FG 1.015

 

[dmtaylor]

I fermented my last 2 batches with S-189 at 70 F. No diacetyl and clean as a whistle. Go ahead and raise it up. I might not bother with trying to ferment cool in the 50s anymore, it ain't worth the hassle and waiting for off-flavors to be reabsorbed by the yeast. YMMV.

 

[Steveruch]

Weird, I've never gotten diacetyl with that yeast.

 

[csantoni]

Weird, I've never gotten diacetyl with that yeast.

I’m starting to wonder if I have a process issue that’s causing the excess of it because it seems to show up in every batch. I use dry yeast almost exclusively and have tried hydrating and overpitching and neither had an effect. I’m not really equipped for a yeast starter and I’ve seen several things that say not to do a starter with dry yeast as you deplete the nutrients they are packaged with.

I just got my water report and my mineral content is fairly low. In my next batch I’m going to try to ensure my Ca is above 50 and might use some yeast nutrient. My theory is the yeast are stressed at pitch and are throwing lots of diacetyl precursors during the growth phase.

 

[dmtaylor]

I got lots of diacetyl with S-189 when fermenting it cold, several times. Which is part of the reason why I tried fermenting it warm instead. Miraculously, it doesn't need the cold at all, and no off flavors.

 

[Bilsch]

Almost all my beers seem to need extra time to get rid of all the diacetyl, even a recent ale with Notty was a diacetyl bomb for the last few days in the fermenter.

Can you get your hands on some ALDC enzyme? It works wonders for eliminating diacetyl before it starts.

 

[csantoni]

Can you get your hands on some ALDC enzyme? It works wonders for eliminating diacetyl before it starts.

I have never heard of that so I’ll be researching it now.

 

[Conehead]

I use the fast ferment method from Brulosophy. My last lager was 6 days at 50 F and it took 10 more days at 66 F to finish.

 

[Bilsch]

I use the fast ferment method from Brulosophy. My last lager was 6 days at 50 F and it took 10 more days at 66 F to finish.

It's funny to me the so called 'fast lager ferment' takes so long compared to doing it right, with the proper yeast and pitch rate, fermented at 48F, lagers are done and carbonated by 7 days. No increased temp rest games, no diacetyl or other faults.

 

[Conehead]

Yea, I get what you are saying. I was getting lager off flavours and the "fast ferment" took them away. I do remember when the odd lager that didn't have any sulphur, or other lager off flavours tasted way better than any of my fast ferment lagers. Hope I said that right.

 

[ebbelwoi]

I fermented my last 2 batches with S-189 at 70 F. No diacetyl and clean as a whistle.

Gonna give this a go this weekend. Do you remember how long those batches took?

 

[dmtaylor]

Gonna give this a go this weekend. Do you remember how long those batches took?

I literally bottled the first batch after just 4 days. It developed a little diacetyl in the bottle. After another two weeks of conditioning, the diacetyl was gone and the beer turned out wonderful.

Second batch was kegged after 11 days, but my notes say it was done fermenting after 5 days. It was drinking great right away, no diacetyl on this batch.

Neither batch was estery and passed as a true lager without a problem. Someone else with better tasting abilities might find something off, but I didn't. These were both American light lagers.

 

[ebbelwoi]

Thanks for the quick reply.

This is going to be a Landbier (Helles-ish) that I'm going to keg. I'll be pitching 2nd-generation slurry, so I'm guessing it'll be finished fermenting around 4 days. I'll plan to keg around Day 10 or 11 then. Thanks!